Is this crazy?

[LinearGoose]

I'm having a great one , thanks.

I'm not really the overly concerned with it , paintball is just a hobby for me. I'd like to see AGD do something to make a comeback but if it doesn't happen it's not going to change the industry. It's just a shame to see something you've enjoyed for so long widdle down to nothing and go away. Like an old family pet pasing on . . . it's just sad , that's all.

I will tell you this . . . if I was going to invest in somewhere in Paintball , and I've considered it in the past , it would not likely be AGD with thier current attitude. I'd have to go with someone going after the market , not running from it. If AGD wants some one to take a risk with them and invest in the company , they're going to have to drop the whole wait and see nonsense and get thier butt in gear. If however , they are content (as it seems) to just coast on by until all the old inventory runs out then that's thier choice too.

That's not going to change the feeling of the people who are going to miss them when they are gone.

Can I ask why AGD is leaving?

[pyrodragon]

Can I ask why AGD is leaving?

they are not leaving.

[LinearGoose]

they are not leaving.

Alright thats what I thought. Just wanted to check because from the previous posts it sounded like AGD is just going to walk out on us.

[zaqwert6]

No , not leaving just like that.

But obviously not the force they once were , not interested in being that force and obviously one of the weaker companies in the business today. I doubt it would take very much at all for them to hang it up. They sure aren't go after any new business. Are not willing to take any risk , not willing to invest in themselves.

The rest after that is text book finance in a competive market.

[RogueFactor]

Just cause you say it so , doesn't make it so.

That works both ways. Difference being I have experience on my side.

The average price of markers have been going down across the board for 5+ years now in addition to getting more bang for your buck.

Not quite accurate. The average price for markers that have been around over the last 5 years has remained nearly constant. The only thing that has lowered in price is markers with less quality, inferior construction, and inferior 'features'. Even the SP Ion recently increased in price.

But just for giggles, which markers are you referring to that have come down in price?

I'm not complaining at all , I stating wants and opinions. I guess your not understanding that people want these things from AGD , they want to see AGD make the effort to survive , and not just exclusively from some tiny single line internet dealer. But . . . I'm glad that your response is precisely what I said it would be. I understand your position , you have pretty much the whole AGD aftermarket tied up with little or no competition. As long as they have their head in the sand your in business. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I guess what your not understanding, is everyone wants what cannot be done---something different. This thread is a perfect example. Some want a constantly new stream of parts, while also wanting something uniquely different and innovative----all CHEAP. An impossible task.

You dont have the breadth of experience in this industry of doing it and then having having to accept the consequences. A nice position, being a back-seat driver always is.

I haven't really asserted any and obviously all other attempts have NOT been made. Seems pretty apparent that very few attemps have been made in lew of not taking any risk. That's been the stated position of AGD for years now. "Wait and see". That's what you do right before the kick the dirt in.

Sure you have. But you lose nothing if youre wrong, someone else does.

I take and have taken those risks in my own business and it has paid off very well for me. I went into semi-retirement by the age of 36. I spend most of my time on a golf course in the sun. Anytime you want race pinks for assets or portfolios let me know and I'll give Rich a call and have him set it up. But you better be sure to bring cash for cab fair.

Well, then this should be easy for ya. Youve got the means, and the plan. Step up and Do it.

Anytime. Call Rich, let me know the details and stipulations of what you have in mind. My e-mail is [email protected] . I will wait to hear from you

I'd like to see AGD do something to make a comeback but if it doesn't happen it's not going to change the industry.

Me too. Thats why I do what I do. From AGD parts.

I will tell you this . . . if I was going to invest in somewhere in Paintball , and I've considered it in the past , it would not likely be AGD with thier current attitude. I'd have to go with someone going after the market , not running from it. If AGD wants some one to take a risk with them and invest in the company , they're going to have to drop the whole wait and see nonsense and get thier butt in gear. If however , they are content (as it seems) to just coast on by until all the old inventory runs out then that's thier choice too.

Dont invest in the company, buy it and run with it. That way you run the show, with all your own ideas---and no excuses. Just be prepared to bring cab fair. Thats all youll have left when your done

[nathanjones008]

I'm having a great one , thanks.

I'm not really the overly concerned with it , paintball is just a hobby for me. I'd like to see AGD do something to make a comeback but if it doesn't happen it's not going to change the industry. It's just a shame to see something you've enjoyed for so long widdle down to nothing and go away. Like an old family pet pasing on . . . it's just sad , that's all.

I will tell you this . . . if I was going to invest in somewhere in Paintball , and I've considered it in the past , it would not likely be AGD with thier current attitude. I'd have to go with someone going after the market , not running from it. If AGD wants some one to take a risk with them and invest in the company , they're going to have to drop the whole wait and see nonsense and get thier butt in gear. If however , they are content (as it seems) to just coast on by until all the old inventory runs out then that's thier choice too.

That's not going to change the feeling of the people who are going to miss them when they are gone.

[B]Amen brother. Amen.

[zaqwert6]

Tell me why I would buy AGD over any other company with a reasonable market share in paintball ? Why is it my job to save AGD ? Why is your only answer to put AGDs burden on everyone else ? Do you not feel AGD had any responsibilty to themselves ? Are they a "Not for profit" charity organization ? :)

It's real easy to just tell everyone else to do it , your so hyped on AGD why not buy them yourself if you have it all figured out and AGD is doing just fine ? If there in such good form just have them go public and I'll even pick up a few shares for grins. I'm a pretty charitable person. :)

Here's the real kicker . . .

AO'ers don't even want anything that 'new' from AGD. Just something different but not even that different.

For example :

'08 Xmag
1) All one piece Alu body
2) Interchangable breach w/ clamping (threaded) feed neck
3) Dual Detents
4) Internal break beam eyes
5) Electro-pnuematic operation
6) Gas thru Grip frame
7) Blade trigger standard
8) Semi only BUT w/ Chip based software configuration
9) Drop the 'actual' max recharge rate to ~25 allowing the drop of the required input pressure somewhat and a minor increase in efficiency
10) Most of those changes should drop the weight to under 2lbs.

Is that so hard ?


Tell me the AGD buying world wouldn't eat that up all day long at a price point under $1K. I guarantee it would open up market share across the board for them and if they would agree to consider it I would consider investing in that product development given right back end.


Anywho . . .

Just to save you all the copy and paste . . . and because this discussion is ultimately without purpose . . . I'll go ahead and say . . .

Your right , AGD is stronger than ever , the product they offer could not be improved in any way , it's the biggest value in paintball right now and there is nothing they could do to make their market share any bigger than it is right now.

There , now you can sleep better at night. I've gotta roll anyway . . . gotta an early flight in the morning. I'll check in when I get back in town.

[rawbutter]

AO'ers don't even want anything that 'new' from AGD. Just something different but not even that different.

For example :

'08 Xmag
1) All one piece Alu body
2) Interchangable breach w/ clamping (threaded) feed neck
3) Dual Detents
4) Internal break beam eyes
5) Electro-pnuematic operation
6) Gas thru Grip frame
7) Blade trigger standard
8) Semi only BUT w/ Chip based software configuration
9) Drop the 'actual' max recharge rate to ~25 allowing the drop of the required input pressure somewhat and a minor increase in efficiency
10) Most of those changes should drop the weight to under 2lbs.

Is that so hard ?

It probably is hard.... but dang, I would buy this '08 Xmag! (Actually, I wouldn't, because I have no money, but I would REALLY drool over it.)

[SCpoloRicker]

zaqwert6, I find your ideas interesting and would like to sign up for your newsletter.

/is this where I brag about my mortgage rate and assets?

[Lohman446]

'08 Xmag
1) All one piece Alu body
2) Interchangable breach w/ clamping (threaded) feed neck
3) Dual Detents
4) Internal break beam eyes
5) Electro-pnuematic operation
6) Gas thru Grip frame
7) Blade trigger standard
8) Semi only BUT w/ Chip based software configuration
9) Drop the 'actual' max recharge rate to ~25 allowing the drop of the required input pressure somewhat and a minor increase in efficiency
10) Most of those changes should drop the weight to under 2lbs.

1 and 2 are of course doable.

3 and 4. Where is the second detent, second eye with interchangeable breeches. In the warp breech the eye (and presumably second detent) would have to be across from each other perpendicular to the balls path. So you would have to have it in the bottom and top of the breech. How is this going to work with the vertical module installed?

What's the advantage of electro-pneumatic operation - assuming you are basically talking about an electro pneumag?

Max recharge rate is a moot point - theres a reason you have not seen videos of devilmags at 30BPS, or X-modded mags - the solenoid does not support it.

Dropping pressure, it has been theorized, may actually decrease efficiency.

I like the concept of new ideas, but its AGD we can't just go with the crowd. TK once talked about building a new marker. You would have to search for the thread... and after your done search for the thread where I called dibs on being first in line :) .

[Lohman446]

Your right , AGD is stronger than ever , the product they offer could not be improved in any way , it's the biggest value in paintball right now and there is nothing they could do to make their market share any bigger than it is right now.

You forgot the part about anyone shooting anything else being stupid and uneducated. Other than that your catching on to the party line :)

[Chronobreak]

psssh

lohman, tom isnt making a marker just so he doesnt have to give you a free one

[Ninjeff]

I think the "wait and see attitude" is sad. I mean, i understand it. I do, really. But the AGD legacy is one of innovation and creation. Half the current paintball industry wouldnt exist without the innovation of Tom Kaye. Its just sad to see them resting on their laurels.

I agree, as an avid AGD'er i would like nothing more to have a new marker hit the shelves and decimate everything previously thought possible, just like so many things Tom was responsible for in the past. My passion for the game tells me to demand a new marker from AGD. My logic tells me AGD, and Tom, are doing the only thing they can, right now, given the state of the industry.


Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be getting mags onto the tourney scene.
Just like cars:

Win on sunday, sell on monday.

Why doesnt AGD have a more visible face in the tourney scene? Im sure there is a reason, i just dont know what it is.

[Rift]

Hasn't it already been stated as well that AGD is mainly focusing on woods ball now anyways? Whats the point of a high speed electro when for most scenario players whats on the product line is good enough. Don't get me wrong who on these boards wouldn't love to see a new gun come out of the AGD factory but the way i see it with there current focus why would do they need too.


Rift

[RogueFactor]

Hasn't it already been stated as well that AGD is mainly focusing on woods ball now anyways?

Yes. Tom said that more than once.

Whats the point of a high speed electro when for most scenario players whats on the product line is good enough. Don't get me wrong who on these boards wouldn't love to see a new gun come out of the AGD factory but the way i see it with there current focus why would do they need too.


Rift

There really isnt a point. But a few think if they complain loud enough, or often enough...that somehow that will change. It happens every few months. And its usually the same people that do it.