Is this crazy?

[RogueFactor]

settle down

i think even the almighty RF has been amazed at the unforeseeable demand for a product.

Settle down, tiger. Ive found what you think you know, and what you actually know are 2 different things.

To hopefully prove my point...Which 'unforseeable' demand are you referring to?

[Chronobreak]

Settle down, tiger. Ive found what you think you know, and what you actually know are 2 different things.

To hopefully prove my point...Which 'unforseeable' demand are you referring to?

you can see inside my head, you must be good

you yourself have said you were "unexpected" yo see things like your vert frames sell so well, and do multiple batches"

i would look for the post but im sure its been deleted

[nathanjones008]

The ones complaining are more concerned than anything. We( the concerned ones) all want this company to thrive and do well. I think all should be concerned. I think all of us has bought a new things from agd designs at one point or another. Shoot i have bought a few brand new guns. I tell everyone this from the bottom of my heart, not to cause contention. SOme may say go and make it happen your self. I cant, until agd sends me a job application. And all you ones like rouge and tuna are doing well trying to keep mags alive, but i do think the manufacture needs to step in and do its part. thats 2 cents. I hope it may help.


This comapny has so much potential and talent i would hate to see it go to waste.

[RogueFactor]

you can see inside my head, you must be good

you yourself have said you were "unexpected" yo see things like your vert frames sell so well, and do multiple batches"

i would look for the post but im sure its been deleted

Scary thought.

No, Ive seen your posts. That are often inaccurate. I have to figure your just making a guess half the time with partial information you puzzle together.

Im never surprised that my vert frames sell well. I put allot of effort into those to make them the best possible. And I believe both the last 2 batch threads are still in the Dealers section. Go crazy and find the post...Id like to read it.

[BigEvil]

How about a proactive anti-chop system, programmable trigger, ability to fire in current league modes, a stock adjustable feed neck, an internal air line system to start with.

Just repacking of what has been around for years...

Oh... wait, not in a mag.

So spend untold thousands of dollars to re-tool the same product, which only about 1000 people will buy. How many would they have to sell just ot break even on such a venture? 10,000? 20,000? Who's going to buy them?

Why even entertain this line of thinking when the products they already have sell enough to sustain the company at a profitable rate?

Why the heck are you harping on an adjustable feedneck for? It will be the second thing people throw away right after the stock barrel.

League modes? Why should AGD bother? Spend $100 on an Xmod programer or Morlock board if that is the real reason your panties are in a knot. Why would they do something that is already being done fairly well in the aftermarket? ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE WILL STILL NOT USE THEM. Where is the benafit? Where is the money to be made? If there is no profit, then why do it?

AGD has been around for what about 15 years? Look at all the fly-by-night companies that have come and went in just the last 10 years. AGD may not be the biggest, but they are doing something right to still be here. Unless you have access to their books and can prove me wrong, then since they are still operating I can only logically conclude that they are making some sort of profit.

[nathanjones008]

what if AKA and AGD merged? That would be sweet. Two ledgendary companies in one!

[Lohman446]

So spend untold thousands of dollars to re-tool the same product, which only about 1000 people will buy. How many would they have to sell just ot break even on such a venture? 10,000? 20,000? Who's going to buy them?

Why even entertain this line of thinking when the products they already have sell enough to sustain the company at a profitable rate?

You took my post out of context, it was in response to one of Rogues classic hype posts about how mags are as far as they can be and there is nothing new that could be added to them, the quote from him was

They want AGD to do what everyone else is doing...re-packaging last years stuff and calling it new.

There is very little that is truly new in the industry as a whole. Which is why sales are slowing, there isnt anything more to hype.

I was simply trying to point out to him that mags do not have everything that one could want. As I have stated in this thread the company is TKs, if he is happy with the risk to reward ratios now, does not see an advantage in those ratios to changing things, then more power to him - no reason to change.

Mags are a great marker for what they are - I would place them as the top mechanical marker available in production or quasi production form.

However, this hype that people are trying to push them as better than, able to do everything an electro marker can do, is old. -- this is my new sound byte. I'm not as good, or experienced as arguing in sound bytes as some people, than again I don't tend to go delete posts after arguments around them have been formed either. If this applies to you, you can figure it out.

[BigEvil]

You took my post out of context, it was in response to one of Rogues classic hype posts about how mags are as far as they can be and there is nothing new that could be added to them, the quote from him was

Well.. thoretically you can add anything, eyes, flux capacitor, kitchen sink, anus tickler, whatever.. BUT, if it is economically unfeasable to do so.. then Rogue is correct in stating that nothing new can be added. At least not from the factory, it just aint gonna happen.

[Lohman446]

Well.. thoretically you can add anything, eyes, flux capacitor, kitchen sink, anus tickler, whatever.. BUT, if it is economically unfeasable to do so.. then Rogue is correct in stating that nothing new can be added. At least not from the factory, it just aint gonna happen.

Assuming it is not economically feasible is a long stretch. There is a difference between feasible and not within the current owners risk to reward tolerance. I don't necessarily like the "this is as good as it gets and there is nothing to get better" viewpoint. It could get better, but its not within what the company wants to do is far more accurate.

[BigEvil]

Assuming it is not economically feasible is a long stretch. There is a difference between feasible and not within the current owners risk to reward tolerance. I don't necessarily like the "this is as good as it gets and there is nothing to get better" viewpoint. It could get better, but its not within what the company wants to do is far more accurate.

Not "Wants" to do, "Can" do.

Like I said, everything is economics. The risk to reward ratio just aint cutting it. To make money on any revamped product, they have to cut development and production cost drastically. What does that mean? Probably outsourcing the production overseas, which would murder q.c., thus alienating their current existing market. So unless they were to come out with the latest newest uber-whatever that every 13 yo tourny wannabe HAS TO HAVE (which I seriously doubt they are capable of creating that kinda of hype) then just about any major alteration to the product line would only sink the company.


As far as minor alterations? Why not. But then again, how many Intelliframe triggers do I need? How many different types of rails? Anything that would really create a buzz in the mag community would either A) be a major investment with a low chance of reward or B) infrindge on someone's patent.

But seriously, where are the shortcomings? IF you say effieciency, then ok there is the only major one. The valve system is still one of if not the best out there for ROF and consistency of velocity. My E and Xmags shoot in excess of 20 bps without chopping paint. I, and probably most players, do not shoot at those speeds. And IIRC, arent most tournies limited to 15bps these days? So Emags can shoot just as fast, without breaking paint, with NO first shot drop off, and can be updated to the modern firing modes. They also can take poundings that would make chop suey out of many other markers. Other than being an airhog (which to me isnt an issue) then what major leap does AGD need to take to 'keep up'. I see your points, but they are irrelivant.

[Lohman446]

Not "Wants" to do, "Can" do. .

Its want to - not can. I am sure if TK wanted to TK could.

"But, but SP..." That whine doesn't work, there are too many counterexamples of companies operating in todays legal environment. Some that started with less than AGD.

I will accept that TK makes the decision based on what he sees appropriate, and respect him for that.

Can't is a cop out invented by others.

[RogueFactor]

You took my post out of context, it was in response to one of Rogues classic hype posts about how mags are as far as they can be and there is nothing new that could be added to them, the quote from him was

Is that your MO? Call something 'hype' that isnt? I guess you dont know or understand the meaning of the word.

I was simply trying to point out to him that mags do not have everything that one could want.

For some they do. For you, it seems, they may not. It doesnt meant that mags dont have features that are just as good, if not better than what you want. Just because you dont think so, doesnt mean it isnt true.

However, this hype that people are trying to push them as better than, able to do everything an electro marker can do, is old. -- this is my new sound byte.

BS. About the only thing mechs cant do better is ramp. Otherwise, they all shoot 300 fps, as fast as you can pull the trigger.--- your the one with the hype. Trying to make it sound like there is something magical and special to a ramping electro marker. And there isnt.

---thats my new sound byte. The anti-hype. Shooting 300 fps as fast as you can pull the trigger.

[rkjunior303]

You dont need much experience, or to be a ref, to realize that Tippmanns & rentals(mechs) make up the large majority of Scenarios. Once those are removed from the count, the remaining minority will be electros...not a leap of genious to come to that conclusion.

So, then, you agree that you dont have to be a genious to realize even though AGD seems to be "CONCENTRATING" on the woodsball/scenario market, they are in fact themselves a minority - maybe even more so than electros on the field.

So, if the majority of markers are rental/scenario tippys and then the majority of the remainder are electros - where does that leave AGD, a company supposedly concentrating on the scenario market?

[RogueFactor]

So, then, you agree that you dont have to be a genious to realize even though AGD seems to be "CONCENTRATING" on the woodsball/scenario market, they are in fact themselves a minority - maybe even more so than electros on the field.

So, if the majority of markers are rental/scenario tippys and then the majority of the remainder are electros - where does that leave AGD, a company supposedly concentrating on the scenario market?

Mechs are the majority of markers used in Woodsball/Scenario. Concentrating on the mech segment is the smartest business approach for AGD to take.

Which is what theyve done.

If you really think someone said that mags are the majority at a scenario event, please find it. I think you inferred, assumed, or mis-read that entirely and are mistaken.

[Foxworthy]

How about a proactive anti-chop system, programmable trigger, ability to fire in current league modes, a stock adjustable feed neck, an internal air line system to start with.

Just repacking of what has been around for years...

Oh... wait, not in a mag.

Didn't the X-Mag have eyes? Can't you get upgrades for the e-mag software that lets you use PSP, NPPL and such (kind alike buying an aftermartket board for most e-guns.) An adjustable feed neck would be nice stock though not all e-gun have it stock either. And internal air lines? You're kidding me right? Just like almost every other gun out there Mags have a air line that goes from the regulator (in the mag valve) to the ASA. I think the mini is the only marker out there that doesn't have an external air line. Of course you could be referring to vertical adapter airline to valve and vertical adapter to asa but that's a personal choice not a requirement.


The only thing AGD doesn't have is e-markers anymore. That's a choice by Tom Kaye. He doesn't want his money going to SP. If the bottom ever falls out on SP "patents" than I know e-mags and x-mags will return. Right now though the cost of making a marker, paying SP and paying a pro team to promote the marker isn't really worth it to AGD.

Which means they are making enough money to live comfortably. Kinda like Palmers and CCI.

I understand you don't like the hype that mags don't need upgrades, but really how many people like the hype that e-guns are the only guns that matter. That's all hype. If all the pro teams switched to mechs people would flock to the mechs.