Body Mechanics and Accuracy

[kenshinkandon]

OK I've read just about every post about accuracy in paintball and I have idea about how instead of how to make you Marker accurate. What about how make yourself (your body) become more accurate with proper shooting positions and good techniques that will help develop a straighter shooting player.

A.)The majority of players that I see shooting are cradling their marker close to their body and are trying to shoot as fast as possible in a short amount of time.

B.)player is cradling their tank in the crease of thier forearm and bicep and yanking on the trigger with alot of force, with a bent wrist.

C.)another style I see alot of a person with a large drop forward, which creates a marker with little or no extentsion of the tank beyond the marker and he or she will typically shoot the marker with it proped on their shoulder and pulling the trigger in a diagonal downward motion

Does anyone take these things into consideration when trying improve on accurracy? do you think that these variables effect how accurate a person is or is not?

Couple of things i think that may affect accuracy is when a person is shooting in position B he or she is typically shoots their marker with a bent or over extended wrist and when pulling on the trigger in this position wouldn't it create a jerking motion from both the contraction of upper body muscles such as the bicep and the shoulder.

I was wondering if there has been any study or research or thought behind this? If so what do you think about my idea is something that you consider to be a problem is the great accuracy debate or Am I just trying to promote the power of the paintball elves?

I have thought about the Z-grip and was wondering if you think that it not only eases stress on the wrist but helps in accuracy by allowing a player to shoot from a less ackward position.

[Chris TeamJoker]

Of course there is a difference in accuracy between different shooting positions.

Think of it this way. If you had a 9mm Baretta (sp?) and held it at arm's length shooting targets, you would be WAY more accurate than if you cradled it with bent wrists closer to your body.

At least, that's the way I see it.

What do the rest of you think?

[topekoms]

YAY a topic i know something about!!

anyway i am glad to see people thinking of this stuff because i see people in those horrible shooting positions you mentioned above all the time. infact most of the people i see do that.

these are some things that if you do not do you will not be accurrate at all no matter how much money or how many balls you WAISTE on someone. if you do not take time to aim for each shot you may as well throw the balls by hand.


when you fire a shot imagine the balls path down the barrel. it quickly is thrusted through the hollow cylinder then leaves it and travels through the air. now imagine that you had a slight movement as you fired. this means the ball would be traveling through the barrel and would pick up a momentum from the movement cuasing the paint ball to go off target in the air. this is a fact that i have proven time and time again to skeptics.

i actually have a us military sniper training and employment book with me so ill type what it says about assuming a firing position and aiming ( this is the real deal here )

3-1. Using the fundamentals of marksmanship
A sniper must be thoroughly trained in the fundamentals of marksmanship. These include assuming a position, aiming, breath control, and trigger control. These fundamentals develop fixed and correct shooting habbits for instinctive application. Every sniper should periodically refamiliarize himself with these fundamentals regardless of his experience.

a. Assuming a firing position. The sniper should fire from a prone firing position (Figure 3-1 i will include this figure soon). Only when a prone supported position cannot be used will the sniper use an alternate type of position. In any type of position, the sniper should always use artificial support for the weapon. This can be sandbags, rucksacks, logs, or anything that will provide a stable platform for the rifle. This reduces movement of the weapon cuase by contact with the body. First shot accuracy is an absolute must for the sniper's mission. Ther are five elements common to a good firing position.

1. Nonfiring hand. Use the nofiring hand to support the butt of the weapon. The sniper places his hand next to his chest and rests the tip of the butt on it. He balls his hand into a fist to raise the weapons butt. A preferred method to do this is to hold a sock full of sand in the nonfiring hand and place the weapon butt on the sock. This reduces body contact with the weapon. To raise the butt, the sniper squeezes the sock and to lower it he loosens his grip on the sock.

2. Butt of the stock. Place the butt of the stock firmly in the pocket of the shoulder. The sniper can insert a pad on the ghillie suit where contact with the butt is made this reduces pulse beat and breathing effects that can be transmitted to the weapon.

3. Firing hand. With the firing hand, grip the small of the stock. Using the middle through little fingers, expert a slight rearward pull to keep the butt of the weapon firmly in the pocket of the shoulder. Place the thumb over the top of the small of the stock. Place the index finger on the trigger ensuring it does not touch the stock of the weapon and will not disturb the lay of the rifle when the trigger is pulled.

4. Elbows. Find a comfortable position that provides the greatest support.

5. Stock weld. The sniper needs to ensure he places his cheeck in the same place on the stock with each shot. A change in stock weld tends to cause misalignment of sights, thus creating misplaced shots.


b. Aiming the Rifle. Begin the aiming process by aligning the rifle with the target when assuming a firing position. The rifle should point naturally at the desired point. No muscular tension or movement should be necessary to hold the sights on target. To check the narual point of aim, the sniper assumes a comfortable, stable firing position. He then places his cheek on the stock at the correct stock weld, enters into the natural respiratory pause, looks away from the scope by moving only his eye, relaxes and lets the rifle drift to its natural point of aim, and then looks back into the scope. If the reticle is in the correct location on the target, the natural point of aim is correct. If it is not correct, the sniper must change his body position to bring the sights onto the target. If muscles are used to adjust the weapon onto the point of aim, the muscles will automatically relax as the rifle fires, and the rifle will begin to move toward its natural point of aim. Because this movement begins just before the weapon discharges, the rifle is moving as the bullet leaves the muzzle. This causes displaced shots with no apparent cause (recoil disguises the movement). By adjusting the weapon and body as a single unit, rechecking, and readjusting as necessary, the sniper achieves a true natural point of aim. Once the position is established, the sniper will then aim the weapon at the exact point on the target.

ok thats enough typing for now...

straight from the horses mouth those fundamentals are all far more important than what kind of barrel you use or even what kind of gun you use ( to an extent im not saying that these tactics will make your talon shoot like a deam hehe )

last week i took my sl68 II pump with a gas through stock and stock barrel out to a game i was playing against all electros and mags and people that enjoyed waisting paint without aiming or even thinking about what they were doing but i didnt mind cuz i play with people like that all the time its their cash and lack of skill (i know i shouldnt say that but its the truth).

the first game i took out three electros. shot one guy in the mask through a 5x10 is window in a fort another guy as he tried to exit the fort and there was one guy in there that all i could see was his had the rest was behind the wall i was about 40 ft away so i took what i could remember from the above fundamentals into consideration, aimed and shot. not only did i hit his hand but i hit it dead on. each of these players were eliminated with a single shot.

this should help anyone interested in improving their accuracy.

its the player not the gun!!!
one bullet can kill a man just as well as 50

[athomas]

Most players you see with the odd shooting postitions, with the markers held at strange angles close to the body, are speedball players. The position they take is designed to make them small behind a bunker. This position doesn't lend itself well to perfect firing conditions, obviously, but it does keep you from being a target in a wide open speedball field where you don't have time to set up the perfect shot.

The debate about accuracy in paintball comes from bench mounted guns and their testing. Depending on the gun setups, barrels, paint, etc., there is a deate raging on about how to obtain better overall accuracy. How people handle that accuracy in their personal shooting style is another matter.

[topekoms]

i disagree entirely (no offense intended). one thing i see a lot among semi players is that when feel safe when they lean out of their bunker and fire a million rounds but they are being exposed for in many cases more time than a single well placed shot. on any sort of field lack of proper aim is rediculous.

being a pump player i see things through a little different perspective semis will be throwing lots of paint at me but the thing is they arent taking time to aim inbetween shots though the volume of fire may intimedate inexperience players i find it much safer than someone who is watching youre every move waiting for that oppertunity to take you out.

whether youre a semi player or a pump player taking time to aim each shot is a neccessary thing and people that do it are much more skilled and experience than those who do not..

experienced people take the time to aim and shoot because they know that in the long run it will save them time and thus be safer to them.

people that shoot lots of paint and dont aim are nervous people who just pull the trigger as fast as they can out of fear of being killed. and thats the truth. get with the program and aim people its not about BPS it is about marksmanship and strategy and it is foolish to argue with that.

in a platoon wandering through the jungle are they gonna shoot 600 rounds at a single target while aiming from their chest jeopardizing the whole team by deminishing the ammo supply and giving away the position to anyone that can hear.

if you are in a position that you cant take the time to aim you are just in a bad position and no amount of BPS or incorrect cradle positions can change that..

people should spend more time thinkging about the tactics of the game rather than how fast they can shoot their gun.

just my views not meant to upset anyone, feel free to comment!

[FordPrefect]

Originally posted by topekoms
feel free to comment!

I will. See, in speedball, you really can't use the "perfect firing conditions" method, because when someone snapshoots, it takes 1-2 seconds. So, you have to get all of that stuff done in about 1 second, then I'll give you about 1 second to pull the trigger, and the marker to cycle, and the paintball to miss(because paintballs are terribly inaccurate, which is another reason ROF will win against your "perfect firing conditions"). And all this time you are exposed. So you are going to be shot out.

[RobAGD]

Well working at a shop and doing some limited real gun shooting has alway lent myself to keep away from those "Super small tight" set ups for several reason.

#1 makes the gun taller

#2 makes you kink you head/neck to target

#3 Shooting possision is not easyly repetable, bad bad bad for snap shooting.

I have managed to convert a LOT of people back to the basic drop tank mounts like the small Dove tails and minium ammount of drop/forwardness. People have found that it easier to shoot faster and they are more accurate with teh guns because they are not contorting thier necks to get a target picture.

-Robert

[Kaiser Bob]

As far as paintball is concerned, you can only hope to get your shots within so many inches of each other, so depending on your position, firing stance dosent really matter as much. For a back man, they usually have the time to take 1 or 2 tracers to get on target, so they can hold their gun however they want.

[conan762]

I have been involved in paintball since 1991, and involved in firing all kinds of firearms from pistols and machine guns to anti-aircraft and anti-armor missiles professionally since 1992. The dude who spoke of the quotes from the sniper manual has hit the tip of the iceberg. You are on the right track as far a the principles of marksmanship are concerned, however the methods applied to a weapons system involve one common denominator...consistency. This is where the paintball marker differs. You cannot get firearms type consistency from current markers, no way, no how. But applying the principles of marksmanship to your shooting program will increase accuracy on the human level, which is decisive in most cases. What goes hand in hand with that is training, practice until it hurts. Letting the specific muscle groups adapt to shooting and allowing muscle memory to overide the conscious mind and take over will give you the drop on your opponent. This is crucial especially in our sport. Just like the gymnast who executes those crazy moves on the mats , allowing the training to take over and get the job done. I could speak volumes on the topic but it will fall upon deaf ears. Kudos to the guy who typed all that text. I am cramping up just with this paragragh.

[M-a-s-sDriver]

Shooting a paintball gun is probably closer in practice to shooting a shotgun. Therefore, ergonomicly on that basis alone you would find hitting targets easier with a shotgun shaped marker, with a foregrip parallel with the barrel, and a more layed back angle on the grip. Even submachine guns like the MP5 use a similar shape to promote natural pointing. But paintball offers it's own special considerations, such as maintaining a small profile, and promoting a highr ROF, benifits of a more upright and tighter firing position.
I believe the parallel foregrip, single trigger setup will add a significant fraction of accuracy to your shooting. I think that is why I can do so well with my Phantom, mainly because of the way I hold it.
Another fact is that if you point at something with you index finger, even without looking down your arm, your finger will invariably be pointing right at what you are aiming for.
Test it...it works. Point at something anywhere, and have a friend eyeball behind your arm, and check it out for yourself.
Just using this one little trick by pulling your trigger with your middle finger and laying your index finger down the axis of your gun will improve snap-shooting noticably.
Brent Jackson, PFB.

[ezrunner]

speedball

It has been referred to here, but this is what I think.

In speed ball, you have to pop out, identify a
target, fire 1 -3 shots, and pop back. This takes
speed, discipline, and accuracy.

The best thing any one can do is shoot their marker.
The more you shoot it, the more accustomed you
become to where your shots will go.

Shoot from weird angles, shoot it sideways,
from laying down, from everywhere.

You have to know, without thinking, the relationship
between how your hands are positioned and where
the ball will hit.

I am an NRA certified handgun instructor, with
15 years of shooting pistol, rifle, and shotgun
under my belt. The closest thing in paintball
to real shooting or however, is shooting clay
pigeons w/ an over/under shotgun.

The best thing to do is to shoot case after
case of paint.

-rob

[FatMan]

not the same thing

topecoms,

I'm not disagreeing with the technical info you've presented, but I don't think you understand very much about paintball. That stuff is probably useful for sneaking about the woods and sniping, but has little or no value in a game like speedball. I mean, you don't see assult teams use those techniques do you? No, those are for snipers.

Paintguns make terrible sniper weapons because the ballistics are terrible. Even a well tuned marker will shoot with a several inch spread at reasonable distances. True, there are many inexperienced players who just shoot without knowing where they are shooting, but you will find the most experienced players often shoot a high volume of paint with good aim. The comments about nervous people and fear of being killed are pretty much out of line.

You can't observe a couple of yokels at the local field and figure you've seen it all. Watch a good team and you'll see guys laying a stream of paint with very high accuracy right where they want it - or 2 or 3 balls at the just the right spot on a snap shoot (which can't use the techniques you've outlined, since by definition you have to move to see the target).

There are good reasons for multiple fast shots:
1) the goal might be to keep an opponent in his bunker so your player can move
2) if you shoot one ball and it goes low, you miss the guy, two or three and one might get him
3) if you get him, the ball might bounce - 2 or 3 increases the odds of a break.
4) the target might not be visible, but is going to pop out for 1-2 seconds, which is shorter than the travel time of a ball - if you lay a short stream at him you might catch him comming out.

These are all good reasons for high rate of fire shooting. They are not good reasons for shooting with poor aim. In that, I'll give you a thumbs up, paintball players need to work on their aim. The problem is, most of the techniques used for regular firearms are not appropriate for paintball (as some of the other experienced people here have pointed out).

Don't be so critical - one of those nervous peole who fear getting killed may end up waxing your tail!

FatMan

[rjvemt1]

i have two words for anyone who is looking to improve volly to volly accuracy, SIGHT PICTURE! if you maintain the same site picture from engagement to engagment the ball will hit the same spot every time you start shooting. the way this i accomplished is by making sure that your gun comes up to shoot in the same exact position every time,impossible you say, not so! i have a hyperflow 301 with a drop forward, at the wistle the butt of my tank is set directy between my pecs so that the valve is rightin front of my nose, instead of an eye(giving me long range depth perception)and it stays there for the rest of the game. i can drop the front to move, even run, when i get to the next bunker, the front of my gun comes up and tada, i have the same exact sight picture that i had during my last string of shots. try it ithinyou will fing tat it works vry well! school ya later kiddies!

[ezrunner]

hmm....

well, that is great for back players, but can you pop out
of your bunker and put 2 rounds on me before I pop you?

-rob

[conan762]

No doubt most everyone worth their salt has a decent technique, otherwise you'd get hosed all the time and quit. Everyone on this thread has brought up valid arguements that is the point, right ? With enough practice putting rounds down range and the right focus you can just peek out let off a quick burst and pop your opponent right in the face. You need to shoot enough that your skill doesn't perish. I have noticed on several occasions that the consistency and quality of our beloved Automag has been i the hands of those peeps who do pop out and shoot that rich kid with his 1,000 round per minute Angel right in the face. It makes it all worth it. I have been using a Minmag since 1995 and it happens all the time.
The marksmanship technigues discussed previously aren't intended for "snipers". I believe that with the propoer fundamentals applied the well aimed shots add up to tens of rounds fired, not hundreds. So called "sniping" is boring and not too practical.