Crossfire Regs

[magsRus]

I use a crossfire 68/4500 and I get no shootdown when I shoot 13 bps..it is my highest rate of fire I have achieved so far on my gun.

[ES13Raven]

Crossfire Quality Control.......

I would like to help out with some testing, but my brand-new Crossfire tank is having issues......

I thought that Crossfire was supposed to have a quality product.....

I just bought a brand new 68/4500 HP tank 5 days ago. I still haven't used it yet. 2 days after I got it, the LP burst-disc blew. It was just sitting in my closet with about 4000psi in it, and just blew for nothing. I figure ok.... maybe just a bad burst disc or something, so I take it back to the store I bought it from, and they replace the burst disc without a problem.

2 days after that, the burst disc blows again at 7am, waking me up on the only day I can sleep in, again just sitting in my closet. Both times it has happened, it was cold in the room if anything.

Now I know the reg is bad, and it slowly creeps. The LP burst disc is rated at 1800psi. I can't wait to give this thing back to the store for a different one. I don't want the same one repaired... I want an entirely different tank.

Is this a rare occurance with a brand new Crossfire tank, or has this happened to a lot of people????

Anyone?

[TRIAD]

Send it back to crossfire, their customer service is top-notch. I dropped my reg on the ground, bent the upper o-ring lip, and they replaced it, hadit back 10 days after shipping. So, drop them a line, and they'll help you out.

[FordPrefect]

I've got a brand new 72/45 Crossfire tank that I will test. I got it from paintballgear, and I got nothing written about it at all. Not a warranty card, not anything. Is this normal?

If we are going to test different systems, you cannot use an ASA. Because you have to have everything the same for every tank. And some tanks don't use an ASA. We need some other way to do it.

[TRIAD]

I didn't get a warranty card either. When I emailed them, I was neither asked for one, nor did I send one. They did not ask me how the upper o-ring lip got bent, nor how or why it may have broken. They simply fixed the tank, charging no return shipping. If that's not the easiest company to deal with, I don't know what is.

[FordPrefect]

Well, thats cool of them. They just fix it, no questions asked, eh?


We still need ideas of how to test the reg for either flow or consistancy.

[FordPrefect]

Wait a tick, screw-ins require an ASA to operate. So, then if it restricts flow, it is a design "flaw" that it must deal with.

I have a question. I had an idea that would use a fan, and measuring how long it took for the fan to slow down, after the tank was turned off. The question is: Would the fan spin faster, just because one tank has a higher pressure? Or would it just be the flow of the tank?

[Styles]

A few points, forgive me if they have already been mentioned as I didn't read the entire thread:

-preset tanks use the pin depressor to vent out regulated air. This is a variable you have to take into consideration when testing them, and in my mind, when buying them. If you have an on/off, some tanks will choke down or off completely if you turn the depressor in too far or not enough. Some bottomlines with fixed depressors may allow more flow on some tanks than others. I would think there is a "sweet spot" area where the reg flows best when depressing the pin. My CenterFlag 420 reg(which I would recommend to anyone) has a fairly long pin with clearance around it. I had a NitroDuck preset before that had a REALLY short pin on it, and would not work well in some ASAs.

-since all this started i think there has been way too much hype about "flow rates". I have run the old Crossfires, which at one time had a horrible reputation, on a Shocker with no shootdown in F/A over the chrono. I've checked a 32 degrees system and it performed the same way, and i've seen both choke on guns that required less flow. I use the above mentioned CenterFlag 420 preset on my Excalibur with no problems, and many people I know also use presets other than Crossfires with no shootdown on theirs. If they can run these markers with their high volume flow requirements, I don't really care what video they have set up telling me my system is inferior. Keep in mind most of these tanks are set at 700-900psi out, so they make up for any flow needed with pressure. The low pressure versions of the Crossfire would be a better statement for them of their flow rates, but really I can't really see the point of limiting yourself to 450 output when you may need to run it a bit higher for some applications, and the fact you don't lose anything really by having the higher output version. Options are always good though.

-The differences are probably quality in components, design, and manufacturing. We sell Crossfires at our store and they are not the most reliable of presets from what we have seen.

[FordPrefect]

We still need a way to test these things, and I've asked a question, and posted an idea about the testing. We need other people to get going on this again.

[Crossfire]

I have read alot, well, all of the posts regarding this forum. You have to say that the actual comparrison is a bold step. We never get to see how products stack up. We just get told. Are you going to slam a company that has made an effort to demonstrate what you are getting. Hell, anyone can pull a triger on a marker. What sells it? Be general not single minded. In the begining it sounded like a witch hunt, with all of the ways that a company is cheating to show performance. Is there anyone that doesn't have a tainted view that will be doing the study. You better spend $250 plus on that gauge.
Has all (ALL) companies that make regs said the same thing? Hell yes.
How do we know the difference. Paintball is virtually all word of mouth. If Smart Parts Freak is the best it sells even if it isn't. Is DYE the best in Cockers,barrels, clothing or aftermarket products or what ever, or do we just like their trailer and look.
All that I am saying is that we better approach this very carefully. I think that we should not be the ones doing the tests. I do not know many of you and that probably goes for alot of everyone else. This needs to be independant, someone that does not play. Bill wiht Warpig is pretty nonbias and he has testing equip.
As far a Crossfire goes, if you look at how they are set up. They offer a fair product at a fair price. Players need that. You need entry level to move up and buy higher level. They sell a product to people that can not afford much to spend on this expensive sport and they stand behind their stuff 100%. Repair a bonnet that someone dropped at no charge? That's cool. Isn't it? I see alot of companies that have product go bad on the first use and the distributor says that they can BUY a repair kit. NO, it is the first time I tried to use it. The repair kit is only $15. They have to make their stuff to offer this hassel free service to players.
They do alot of good that others do not.
All reg companies are equal if they say the same thing about the performance. Now we have someone that is giving us some proof (they do work well). They have been around a while. do you think that they would throw themself under the bus, or is that what we want to accomplish.
Lets do this right. There have been posts on PB Nation of players wanting to see some performance tests. These kinds of places that do sell advertisement can not do this type of test, which answers my question about Bill. It has to be independant to have any back bone.
Are we going to publish a consumers report on products now, or are we just going to single out reg manufacturers and companies that put their name on regs.

Your comments are appreciated.

[billmi]

Originally posted by flow
Bill wiht Warpig is pretty nonbias and he has testing equip....

These kinds of places that do sell advertisement can not do this type of test, which answers my question about Bill.

I would suggest, if you want a question answered about me, that you ask me.

One of the reasons I've kept the pricing on WARPIG's ads very low (compared to other means of advertising), is so that there would be a wide variety of sponsors, even to avoid the appearance of needing to lean to one sponsor or not.

Sponsorship of WARPIG does not determine the content of the web site, if it did, what would be the point of the site?

That's also why we don't sell products, despite the fact that I've been offered healthy sums of money to do so. If you go to "JoesInfoWebsite.com" and read a glowing product review, and there's a "buy it here" button, that is not a review, but a sales pitch.

By example, I would suggest you look over articles on WARPIG about the changes in the Revolution loader that have taken place over the years. I published the article about the change in their electronics with computer recorded performance graphs showing the decrease in performance of the 2000 Revolutions while they were a sponsor of WARPIG, and without going through any political "hey, is this OK with you guys" nonsense. Why? Because it was a performance issue relavent to players, and that's what WARPIG is about, what is relevent to the player.

The real reason I haven't done a regulator drop off test is that I haven't found the pressure transducers needed to do it right at a cost that fit in my budget at the time.

Tom Kaye has offered the use of his equipment at AGD for such testing, but the cost of travel to get there knocks that out, pluss I believe that if the testing was done at a manufacturer, on their equipment, readers would call into question whether things were biased towards AGD.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Paladin]

Regulator flow rate

If you set about testing regulators by firing a paintgun, all you will really be testing is the flow capacity of the fittings and air passages between the regulator and the gun. Or in the case of a 'Mag, the flow rate through the on/off valve.
If you are going to actually test the flow rate and output consistency of a regulator you need to use a basic flow meter/guage, a shut off valve down stream from the gauge and calibrated gauges on the output from the tank before and after the flow meter.
The tests should be performed at low, medium and high output pressures.
Rate the regulators that you test, not just the plumbing.

[cledford]

Any suggestions? I get the pins taken out of my arm tomorrow so can pick this back up. I described a simple flow meter in a previous post - any different take on the process?

-Calvin

[cledford]

[Jason Reed]

my crossfire reg was damaged when i received it a couple of weeks ago how do i go about sending it back and getting it fixed.