autococker valve/other valve: time it needs to stay open to fire/changes

[redlaser666]

Ok here is a circuit you can use that will work as you want.

When you press the trigger (S1) the current goes through the second switch that is normaly closed (S2) and then to the solenoid. Once the solenoid energizes and pulls the sear, the sear switch(S2) opens, cutting the power of the solenoid and allows it to be pushed back by the retro efect.

One thing that can happen is that since the switch will close again when the sear resets, if you are still holding the trigger down it will fire again. This will probably make the gun full auto.

The best way to get around that problen is to use a monostable timer. This circuit will energize the solenoid for a set amount of time (10 - 20ms probably) and then turn it off until reset by letting go of the trigger. I will try to find a suitable circuit and post more later.

Hope this helps.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

wow

wow, I mean just wow. Thanks both of you. I will definitely do my homework on that site and read up on timing circuits as well to get a better understanding of them. Sounds like the economical solenoid, board, switch combo I'm looking for is very possible. Nice!

EDIT: just one quick followup question. To me it looks like the solenoid is vertical, how can that pull the sear? Or am I look at something else and thinking it's the solenoid?
EDIT TO THIS EDIT: ok, looked into this more, I haven't done much with EMags yet and I saw the different sear which had an extra arm. I get how it works now, but $50 for it? Jesus! The normal one is $15. That's pathetic. I would understand $25 for the extra stuff but $50? Lame prices like that makes building my own somewhat pointless.

I have two ideas to deal with this issue. The first is to find a solenoid compact enough to horizontally mount it. This would most likely involve a "push" solenoid instead of a pull one. The other is a sear mod, similar to what I was working on before, and would involve shortening the part of the sear that hangs down by half and weld on an extension that is at an exact 90 degree angle and goes under the point where it pivots and then just behind it. It would have to be the same height, distance, and an inverse angle from the center point of the shorter fulcrum. This would also involve a Push solenoid instead of a pull one. This shorter radius from the pivot point should bring the weight of the pull back up but really shorten the pull distance, making the current solenoid be usable but will allow the dwell time to be insanely short if I am right as the pull distance would be about 50% less. And with the noid having to be on in bursts 50% shorter than before and no noid work being done on the return, this could be pretty battery efficient. Am I right? Jack and Coke and I both worked on this but the project kind of died and this would be somewhat different.

Now here is an interesting question: If this is single solenoid functionality, could a WAS board be used and the LED screen from WAS boards incorporated? Just curious, as cutting out the grip up near the top and fitting a LED screen the Timmy's use and having ACE functionality would be pretty sick. It is switch-activated and single solenoid so I don't see why it couldn't. Thoughts?

YET ANOTHER EDIT (my brain is ravaging through this stuff, new thoughts flying nonstop): If the WAS idea would work, I realized Timmys use LCD screens that display particular programming, obviously from the WAS board, which would be great to incorporate into this idea if I do use a WAS board. Does it have to be a very specific LCD screen that is used or can one from an electronics store be used?

[hitech]

Have you read Bill Mills article on using a basic stamp to control a marker? A basic stamp is cheap (~$20) and easy to use. If you can't find the article on warpig.com let me know.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

idea

I will look for it. OK, here is my followup idea: what about a marker where the 3-way stays mechanical but only the ram is electronic? Maybe not the best idea, but it lets an autocockers pull be as short and light as the 3-way is. I know similar mods are out there, but I am not talking about making the 3-way rod be powered electronically, that would stay mechanical but the start of the pull would be simply hitting the microswitch to fire which would really shorten the pull and allow a searless operation if the 2-sided valve idea works. Affordable too, simple on/off operation ($50-75 in parts maybe?) With definite benefits including less recoil. So what would be the negatives of a hybrid such as this?

[redlaser666]

If you already have the WAS board handy you can try to use it, but you must also take into acount that the WAS was designed to work with a 5Watt sol. If the solenoid you are planing to use has a higher rating you would need to use an output drive transistor to haldle the bigger load.

As far as the LCD is concerned, it probably is a specific one. Diferent displays use diferent comunication algorithms (serial, paralell, etc.)

Later,
Raul

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

yeah

Yeah, true about the LCD. Well, as long as a deal goes through I will be the owner of a Merlin once it comes back from milling and annoing so the focus of my questions and ideas will be on cockers. I'm sure Tom Kaye will be relieved to hear that, although I still think a shorter sear lever to shorten the stroke and make it a little heavier would be a good idea, but anyway....

The hybrid idea right now is my favorite. The switch could be activated by a Matrix-like trigger, with an arm that extends down into the trigger frame so the longer extension means the switch activates quicker and will definitely go off before the 3-way kicks in, meaning the stroke would be as short and light as the 3-way is. The issue is now finding the right way to have a solenoid replace the ram and activate the valve. An added benefit of this is that if the ram is replaced, the cycling pressure could go way down and still maintain a high ROF as the weight the ram is pushing will be less since it doesn't have to reset the hammer. I even have a way the back block could become obselete but that is another discussion... thoughts on the best E-rams? The doubleway one is still in the works but imagine a thin tube, like a Mag power tube that the bolt sits on, with a metal sheath that goes over it. So the tip would be narrower and as it's hollow with an open tip the air drag would be minimal. The tip would be open but have a stem just like a mag does and an X at the top like a mag bolt does. The solenoid activates, pushing the sheath until a hole they both have lines up, allowing air to flow into the chamber and fire. A spring would then reset the valve. So it would function like a mag but actually reverse the process.