new thought on paintball barrels and distance

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  • phyregod
    Master Fabricator
    • Oct 2003
    • 230

    #1

    new thought on paintball barrels and distance

    This is actually for Tom Kaye, but I will post this information here and trust that everyone will keep it here. Tom, you seem to be the only person who actually cares to scientifically test anything and you have the resources to do so, therefore, I leave you with the following thoughts..

    When a ball breaks in a barrel, you can see the following paintballs flying every which direction. Some of them hooking VERY hard, obviously caused by the drag of the loose paint in the barrel creating a heavy spin on the ball. If we were able to conrtoll this spin, we could put a backspin on the ball and increase range, ala the flatline barrels. We all know how those work. I have another design idea that i think would be more effective, as well as adjustable.

    If you could control where the "paint" was and how much "paint" is in a barrel, you could control the spin. "paint" however, would never work. So we need to find a substitute. Something that won't smear or move. Rubbery stuff. If we were to put this at the "top" of the barrel near the tip it would induce backspin. To take the idea a little further with adjustability and a constant bore, what if you were to drill 1/4 inch holes along the top of a barrel, maybe 1/3 inch apart for the last couple of inches of the barrel, then mill the top of the barrel flat to give a constant and thinner outer surface. Then get the material used in making "sticky hands" (best material i could think of for this application) (you can get em in those quarter machines at supermakets, you know they have the rubbery string with the sticky hand, you used to stick em to walls, brothers and sisters, etc) Now for testing you could just use electrical tape or something to hold the sticky hands in place over the holes. Taped tight enought that the sticky hand material protrudes through the holes and into the interior of the barrel just slightly. In order to induce more spin, you fill more holes or tape it tighter so more material protrudes into the barrel, for less spin, fill less holes. For a final product you could put metal plates over the holes with thumb screws or something. This also has an oppertunity for making pretty good money, as you could sell different materials to induce more or less spin, replacement inserts and plates, etc. I give this idea to Tom Kaye and Airgun Designs for testing, building and selling my idea. I will also include a drawing of my idea at http://www.paintballiq.com/images/pbiqbarrel.jpg It will be posted later today. Good Luck with the design tom! I hope you at least try it! (and if you make a million dollars on it, you have to send me a free barrel :)

    Noone has done this before, and it will be cheap to produce!


    paintballiq.com
    Last edited by phyregod; 10-30-2003, 06:07 PM.
  • astroboy
    Registered User
    • Nov 2000
    • 84

    #2
    z-body from www.galacticz.com uses this idea and it's patented (or patent pending)...
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    • phyregod
      Master Fabricator
      • Oct 2003
      • 230

      #3
      different concept there.

      I Looked just now, and in his design it is part of the actual gun itself, and tries to cause backspin before it ever hits the barrel, which would be highly inefficient because the barrel would not only slow or even stop the backspin, but the paintball would bounce violently from top to bottom and you would loose alot of velocity. also, when the paint ball crosses the area where he put the the "backspin piece" it is not up to speed, so it couldn't possibly create the spin that my design could. I believe my design will be cheaper to the consumer, more efficient, and easier and cheaper to produce. And it is UNIVERSAL. you could add this system to ANY paintball gun with a barrel on it.

      ps. it does suck that the general idea has been produced. I thought that was my brainchild. :P
      Last edited by phyregod; 10-31-2003, 09:18 AM.

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      • astroboy
        Registered User
        • Nov 2000
        • 84

        #4
        well I'm no patent lawyer so I dunno if your idea is different enuff but I do have the z-body and the main problem with it, as with the flatline barrel from tippmann (which I also have on my A-5), is the consistency of the spin, or rather the lack of it. how do you ensure that each ball has relatively the same amount of spin? consider that there are different sizes of paintballs and also the oily residue that is left behind? the z-body faq recommends 'cleaning' the paintballs with alcohol before hand but that's way too tedious...

        also for your idea the backspin material needs to be on top of the barrel... how do you ensure that it is on top for every gun since barrel threads are so different? (for example my freak barrel has the freak signature facing up on my autococker but it's facing down on my friend's autococker...)

        as for your comment that the balls would be bouncing up and down in the z-body barrel... i don't think so since after hitting the rubber spin inducer, the ball should be backspinning, therefore be rising in the body/barrel (they recommend using not a large bore but a 'humungous' bore barrel so there is space for the ball to be spinning/rising.)

        lastly if you're crazy about backspin, try mating a flatline autocker with the undertow bolt then adding your 'mod' to the barrel... hehehe
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        • phyregod
          Master Fabricator
          • Oct 2003
          • 230

          #5
          more thought on this thing.. it is now a beast.

          well, if i did all three mods i would bet that the paintball would loop over and shoot me in the rear.

          Consistancy: the sticky hand material cleans easily with water, and you could use alcohol to clean the greasy stuff off of it, and being close to the end of the barrel you could easily clean it between games. Also, being closer to the end of the barrel it would be more consistant than being in the body. And remember, normal paintball guns aren't sniper-rifle accurate anyway, so no matter what you do they will never (not anytime soon anyway) be 100% consistant. You could also keep the barrel that fits your paint in my design.

          anyway, the automags would have no prob with barrel position.. but then the design wouldn't be universal would it? So, after thinking for half a second I remembered that Tom Kaye had experimented with a rotating barrel. So what if you borrowed a bit of that technology. You could adjust the position of the barrel! ooooooo.. then you could shoot curve balls at the back players on purpose by twisting the "spin inducer" to the left or right. they would have to hide an extra two inches deep into their bunkers therefore removing that much more of their view of the field (specifically the part where you are at)... Flip the inducer to the bottom and you could hook paintballs deeper into the front player's bunkers. That little bit of advantage could easily win tourneys! And as a bonus the design becomes universal once again. But then its more expensive to produce.. Its too bad you cant ever get a positive/positive out of anything.

          afterthought: If a back player were to use all 6 ports in my design, and tighten the thumb scews all the way down for maximum spin, could they shoot around bunkers? Could they plant paintalls straight down behind a bunker? of course they couldn't shoot straight anymore because the backspin would be way too much.... would it be tourney legal??? Just a thought.....
          Last edited by phyregod; 10-31-2003, 01:27 PM.

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          • AGD
            The man from AGD

            • Oct 2000
            • 5916

            #6
            Its been done before as mentioned earlier. The regieme of paintball balistics has been fully explored at this point. The only new stuff will be the marketing hype.

            AGD
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            • BlackVCG
              Grubby Owner

              • Oct 2000
              • 4956

              #7
              I'd like to do/see some experimentation on high ROF paintball ballistics. It'd be interesting to know how high of a ROF you need to get the ball in front of the next ball inline to create a wake that will induce mixing and thus less seperation on the next ball inline.
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              • madgoat33
                Registered User
                • Sep 2002
                • 242

                #8
                Teflon sounds like the material you were looking for.....

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                • trains are bad
                  Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 1751

                  #9
                  Originally posted by BlackVCG
                  I'd like to do/see some experimentation on high ROF paintball ballistics. It'd be interesting to know how high of a ROF you need to get the ball in front of the next ball inline to create a wake that will induce mixing and thus less seperation on the next ball inline.
                  Probably 280BPS at 280fps, for a foot between paintballs, correct?
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                  • Dueydog
                    Give your Halo The BONE!
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 723

                    #10
                    Long thin slit of rubber and an adjustable two piece barrel to keep it on top?

                    One thin long consistant piece of rubber, same as the bolt bumper, could be used and would be durable and easy to clean at the end of an adjustable two piece barrel to keep it on top. One long rubber slit would be more consistant then several holes knicking it around maybe.
                    Later,
                    Matt
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                    • Dueydog
                      Give your Halo The BONE!
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 723

                      #11
                      And how about paintballs being consistant weight and filled with denser paste?

                      Denser paste would help with the spin as it is more solid. True?
                      Matt
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                      • bertmcmahan
                        Not pop, it's all Coke
                        • Jan 2002
                        • 1960

                        #12
                        Could a prototype be made of PVC or copper tubing? Or maybe just a crappy barrel? You got my interest now, I wanna try it!



                        Oh yeah, to make the twisting thing easier for back guys, you could have a type of clamp thing that is hand-operated(like one of those big old honkin glue/caucl/whatever applicators) that would unlock in the squeezed position, and lock in the unsqueezed? I said back guys cause front guys probably couldnt take the effort to adjust their barrels in-game.
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                        • ExtremeODD
                          Swastika is not evil.
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 213

                          #13
                          or take a barell, have all of the inside coated with teflon (except for the part for the ball to get spun by) wouldnt this work (not as effective tho)
                          she seems fond of eating hellfire, which would be a first out of anyone ive seen eat it.-Kaiser Bob

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                          • INFERNO
                            Registered User
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 48

                            #14
                            why not make something kind of like an adjustable ball detent thats rubber and put it in the top of the barrel

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                            • phyregod
                              Master Fabricator
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 230

                              #15
                              Because that IS the other guy's design... well, in a basic form anyway.

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