XMOD BETA Testers ONLY (Questions/Comments)

[mpsd]

Restarting the Tests

Hi, everyone.

After a couple of months out (one of them in the US for my sister's wedding), I'm back into paintball and into my XMOD testing. During my stay in the US, I sent my mag to Tuna, in order to change some body parts for RPGs, my freak barrel for the new deadlywind's Wisper and a complete review, including checking the solenoid's wires and all the o-rings. He also retuned my Level 10 for optimum performance and "upgraded" the software to AGD's 3.2 (I only had the 1.37 original AGD software). Being so, I just reflashed my mag again with XMOD Beta 1.5 and I'm willing to restart the tests as of tomorrow morning (here in Brazil we are 2 hours ahead of US's eastern time). As soon as I run my tests, I'll post the results here for you. If everything goes OK, I'll also make a new movie of my mag ripping a 16 bps PSP ramping!

Best regards,

Mendel.

[mpsd]

Not Quite

I just tested it again and I do have some questions about it. This time (after Tuna's review), it's shooting way better than the other time but, still, it isn't perfect.

At SEMI mode, it's shotting just like AGD's 3.2, so it's OK.
At PSP mode, it's like, gasping. Don't know why but it's certainly different from my Predatored Shocker.
At Full auto, it's not shooting at 15 bps either. It's more like 5 or 6 bps.

My setup is the following:

BPS 15
ACE OFF (don't have an eye)
FIX 10 (tryed with 0, no difference)
DWEL 15
I'm also using a brand new Smart Parts Max Flo Micro with 800 psi output on it.

When I do the test with the TRG ACE, it blinks so fast it almost stay on all the time. When I do the test mode with the solenoid on, it shows numbers between 11 and 13. I hardly shoot over it, but at least it's pretty constant

What do you suggest?

[LorneCash]

MPSD,

If you raise the ROF to 25 and put it in full auto is it better? try raising your dwell to 30 does that help with the ROF at 15 then try that at 25. I'm not saying that these settings are good long term but for a short time they won't hurt anything. I just need to know how it affects your performance. The more detail you give me the easier it will be for me to diagnose.

try this also, with no air connected take off your grip and see if your solenoid moves up and down as you tip your gun.

With the solenoid out mine will go in at about 15degrees below horizontal and with the solenoid in it will go out at 30-60 degrees above horizontal, sometime it seems to more sticky than others but in general it moves freely.

Please do your best to describe how yours is moving just like I did so I know it that should be a concern. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about.

Also put it in PR-T mode with the solenoid off. Can you get a higher BPS then?

Are you really using micro line? Not macro line? That could be a problem too.
You could also try using a defferent Regulator, borrow one from a friend or something.

[BigEvil]

Xmod after-action report

Took the boys out today with their new software installed and ready to rock.

Xmag setup with the warp feed. The gun absolutlety ripped. I did run into a few bumps on the road.

1- Either gun doesnt like to have the rof set at above 17 bps for anything other than semi. I have a pre-set nitro bottle at 850 psi input. I would imagine you need at least 1000 psi input to work properly at 18-20bps. Having the e-tac set at 20bps resulted in a lot of goo and the bolt hanging up.

2- aftwards, I took the xmag apart to find some brass dust floating around neat the on/off and some unusual wear on the bolt. I polished it off with some 0000 steel wool, and raised the dwell from 15 to 20. Took it back out and ripped another 400 rounds through it. Checked it again and everything looked good.

3- The warp worked very well at the higher rof.

4- NXL rips. Plain and Simple. It was very impressive. Players with more 'agg' guns were all gathered around the weird gun without the hopper.

5- No problems at all with the ACE using either light or dark shell paint.

6- using the bottom button for a warp-advance is a nice feature. The little button on the back of the grip is easier to find than the white one on the warp.

7- Also having the button disable the ACE is nice too, but it would be nice to have the LED flash or something to know it went off.

8- the damn on/off pin stared to hang up on me. Drove me crazy towards the end of the day. The gun would only fire in Mech. When I got back home I realised the on/off assembly started to unscrew. Watch out for that one.

9- THEN, the powertube tip started to unscrew. I couldnt figure out for the life of me WTF was going on. The noid worked, there was air, but the gun wouldnt cycle. Im still pissed about this one.

The moral to the story, anything with the xmod on it is going to take more of a pounding than ever before. Make sure everything is snugged. Even my grip screws were loose at the end of the day.

Current Settings:
Xmag
ROF 17
fIX 20
Dwell 20

Etac
ROF 17
FIX 16
Dwell 25

[BigEvil]

HA

Dam noid plunger was moving around on the clevis. ROF issue solved for now.

[BigEvil]

Update

HA

Dam noid plunger was moving around on the clevis. ROF issue solved for now.

Damn gun is going to get tossed under a truck today. Last season I started getting an issue, where if I didt fire the gun for a couple of minutes, it wouldnt work in e-mode until I fired it once in M. The noid was clicking, but not moving. Once you fired in in manual, it was ok.

Now, the problem is worst all of a sudden. Even after I fire it once in M, as soon as I stop shooting, it wont fire again in E unitl I shoot it in M. We played Sunday, and it was very cold out. It stared acting up, and I thought that the battery was getting low, but it wasnt. (Checked with voltometer and swapped it with a new battery off of my Etac)

I have so far.

-Lubed the hell out of it.
-Checked for loose parts
-Increase dwell from 15 to 30 and tried all settings in between.
-tried different FIX settings
-Increased and decreased the noid plunger length (At Tuna's suguestion, which seemd to make the gun work better at 20 bps)
-Swap the battery with a new one off of my Etac
-rebuild the on/off assembly
-SWAP the entire on/off assembly with the one from the e-tac
-Checked the ground screw.
-took out the reg pin to check for anything unusual. I lubed it, put it back, and now it is venting out of the side. (I am NOT having any luck with this thing).

None of the above helped the stick issue. Im at the point where I am about to order a new noid and reg pin(since it is leaking out of the side).

I can see the noid trying to move when I fire. It acts like it is stuck. If I push down slightly on it, it will fire.

Any suguestions before Mr.Xmag meets Mr.Sledge Hammer?

[LorneCash]

BigEvil,

First of all contact AGD tech support or try searching the forums since this is really a hardware problem. Get all your leaks fixed before you try to fix anything else.

I have actually dealt with this same problem before with several other people. Usually increasing the dwell by 2 or 3 will do it however I think that is a band-aid fix. I'm pretty sure it means that something in the gun is not sealing properly and that the air chamber is overpressurized beyond the point that the noid can overcome. It may also be the noid though. It may not be working or it may be bent.

try this,
with no air connected take off your grip and see if your solenoid moves up and down as you tip your gun.

With the solenoid out mine will go in at about 15degrees below horizontal and with the solenoid in it will go out at 30 degrees above horizontal, sometime it seems to more sticky than others but in general it moves freely. If it's not moving freely I can garuntee you that is a problem, however it may not be your only problem.

[BigEvil]

try this,
with no air connected take off your grip and see if your solenoid moves up and down as you tip your gun.

With the solenoid out mine will go in at about 15degrees below horizontal and with the solenoid in it will go out at 30 degrees above horizontal, sometime it seems to more sticky than others but in general it moves freely. If it's not moving freely I can garuntee you that is a problem, however it may not be your only problem.

Lorne,

Noid moves freely. Im going to overhaul everything. Noid, sear,reg pin, reg springs, all soft seals, ect. Its got about 200k on it, so a couple of bucks for a noid and such wont hurt. I just have to make sure I get the length of the noid plunger correct.

Also, when I took the reg pin out and then back in, the valve started leaving out of the side vent. So that's gotta be replaced anyhow.

[Rudz]

yup

i guess its like trying to toss a supercharger on an engine that needs to be rebuilt...its not gonna happen..ill keep all this in mind..

[Outlaw5]

First report "Outlaw5 X-Mag"

For your consumption. I have had the code for about three weeks but really got into it today. I have read the latest from Big Evil on his impending overhaul and I thought that i would have to do the same. The first day I played with the code I noticed some problems I was having with the marker cycling. Now I have to admit the valves for the dwell and fix are a bit new for me and being that I'm just a army guy it takes me a couple of times to fully get what is going on when it comes to new technical stuff. During the first day I didn't know enough to raise my Dwell to ensure reliable selenoid actuation so my first day will not be discussed except to say knowing what the marker did before helped greatly with today.

Big Evil. I want to say that I had all the same problems you have had to include the venting out of the side of the valve...to let you know I broke down the valve to include breaking down the reg seat portion. I oiled the daylights out of it and it took about 200 to 300 cycles to seat it well again with no leaks so you may want to give it a little setting in period before a complete overhaul. Now on to the testing.....Big Evil stay tuned for what I found out about my noid and plunger.....

Today I started with no paint and only air. In the first thirty to fifty shots the marker was humming on NXL, ROF15, Dwell 25, Fix 20 and ACE off. After the initial opening fire I noticed the marker started to skip shots in the NXL full auto part of the mode until the marker was shooting about 4 cycles per second....not exactly 15 CPS. I went in and retuned my LvL X with the longest spring but I changed it back to the middle spring after having to take down the noid. I thought because I was missing shots it was the input pressure I was using and the amount of leverage needed to trip the sear, ie. needing to turn the dwell to 30 to get the marker to fire.

Well my testing values:
TEST 1 & 2:
NXL -- 15 & 17
DWELL -- 26 HAD TO MOVE TO 30 AS SHOTS WERE MISSED
FIX -- 25
PRESSURE INTO THE MARKER -- 985 PSI
BATTERY CHARGE -- 18.25 VOLTS
LVL X WITH MEDIUM SPRING -- FPS 281-285


TEST 3:
SEMI -- ROF 15
DWELL -- 30
FIX -- 10
PRESSURE INTO THE MARKER -- 985 PSI
BATTERY CHARGE -- 18.17 VOLTS
LVL X WITH MEDIUM SPRING -- FPS 281-285

As you see above the dwell was at 30 and as I read the info in Lornecash's manual I knew this was not the appropriate or previously tested settings. I had read what Big Evil was experiencing and Lornecash's examples of how the internals should be moving. Now remember that the end result of the tests were a great start then 4 CPS as it seemed like the noid and plunger were binding.

I went in and tore the X-MAG down to the battery and grip frame. I noticed very fine brass colored dust on the back of the grips in the space above the noid. I removed the plunger and inspected it. I noticed two areas on the plunger where the black coating was "scratched" and worn. (Something to look at Big Evil) I then looked closely at how the plunger was aligned with the sear axial pivot position. I saw the plunger out of line by millimeter or less. You can see the misalignment of the right angles in regards to the plunger tip and the sear axial pivot point. I pushed the plunger to align with this axial pivot point and tried the marker one more time prior to boxing it up and sending to Tunaman like you are thinking Big Evil. I went again without paint and tried my hand at figuring out what was going on.

I inputted the values that Lornecash suggested for the Dwell and fix and tried out the marker in Semi..........HOLY S**T is all I can say. I had to set the fix to 20 to keep it from getting serious bounce.

My testing Values:
TEST 4:
SEMI -- ROF 15
DWELL -- 15
FIX -- 20
PRESSURE INTO THE MARKER -- 985 PSI
BATTERY CHARGE -- 18.01 VOLTS
LVL X WITH MEDIUM SPRING -- FPS 281-285

TEST 5:
NXL -- ROF 15
DWELL -- 15
FIX -- 20
PRESSURE INTO THE MARKER -- 985 PSI
BATTERY CHARGE -- 18.01 VOLTS
LVL X WITH MEDIUM SPRING -- FPS 281-285

Both of the these tests were flawless! No missed shots and a smooth ROF.

My last test was SEMI with ACE and paint.
My testing Values:
TEST 4:
SEMI -- ROF 15
DWELL -- 15
FIX -- 20
PRESSURE INTO THE MARKER -- 985 PSI
BATTERY CHARGE -- 18.01 VOLTS
LVL X WITH MEDIUM SPRING -- FPS 281-285

Eventhough I broke a ball "HOW DID THAT HAPPEN WITH A TUNED LVLX AND ACE!!!!!" I'm really not sure but the paint was crap. After I turned off the ACE I continued with SEMI and ripped off the shots with no missed trigger pulls.

The most important thing on any E or X-MAG is the plunger not binding in the noid. I was getting pretty good results with tipping the marker and having the plunger move in and out of the noid without a lot of trouble but some sticking. After I aligned the plunger and the axial pivot point I was able to have the plunger move in and out with absolutly no binding in the noid. (Big Evil...try this and check it, I believe this will help with the missed shots...no binding and free floating is paramount).

This is the first installment. The saga will continue...........

V/R MAJ Jerry "Outlaw5" Perkins, SF, De Oppresso Liber

[LorneCash]

Outlaw5,

Again it sounds like hardware problems... I can't help that but it would be nice if some of the AGD techs could post comments/suggestions or if people could post links to other threads where such issues are discussed in more detail because it sounds like most of the issues you guys are having has nothing to do with the software side of things.

[BigEvil]

Outlaw,

Those copper colored scratches on the plunger are normal according to Tuna. I ordered all new parts from him and should be here in a few days. The Xmag has about 200k cycles on it, and im not going to mes around with it.

I swapped out the noid plunger and reg pin from my Etac and the binding problem went away.

Tuna also mentioned, that alot of times the noids get 'pissy' as they get older and that increasing the plunger length by a thousanth or so might help.

Now that I solved the binding thing, I want to find out why I cant get this thing to work past 17 bps. I have tinkered with the dwell, the fix, the plunger length... but the gun still farts set at 18-20 bps. This is on both the Xmag and E-tac. I also noticed that when I put a battery on that is freshly charged, the problem is not as sever, but still there. (hmmmm?)

The next thing I look at, is the HP Tank. Im going to pick up my brothers later and see if maybe me Centerflag preset just cant keep up. It supposed to be 850 psi output, but we all know they can be off by as much as 100 psi. 750psi going into the mag just aint gonna cut it at 20bps. I also have an Adjustable Centerflag bottle reg laying around here that needs to be rebuilt, maybe its time I did it and tried that. It used to work great on my old RT for rapid fire.

I still have to say that the ROF on 17 is still plenty fast. I however, want to make sure that at least on SEMI I can set it up to 20bps before I am satisfied.

Also Outlaw, what is the max ROF you can set your gun at and have it still function properly?

[Outlaw5]

Hardware.....

First, Lornecash...you are correct sir!! It was a hardware problem and once I got through that the software works as advertised. I don't have any links that I can remember off hand for those hardware issues but that is a good point.

Second, Big Evil....sounds like you have the plan for your hardware issues and you have more info from Tunaman than I have from my experiences. I think it would help all if you posted your conversations with Tunaman that apply because of his tech status. I have only tested at a ROF of 15 BPS. I had tested the CPS last night just prior to my post and had no issues with ROF 15 in NXL mode.

I plan on test some more this afternoon and I'll check with and without paint at a higher rate of fire. I think your adjustable reg might be the problem you are running into. I know that I could never get a high rate of fire in 3.2 without my flatline or armageddon tank input set around 900 to 1000 PSI.

More to Follow.........

MAJ Jerry "Outlaw5" Perkins, SF, De Oppresso Liber

[BigEvil]

Second, Big Evil....sounds like you have the plan for your hardware issues and you have more info from Tunaman than I have from my experiences. I think it would help all if you posted your conversations with Tunaman that apply because of his tech status. I have only tested at a ROF of 15 BPS. I had tested the CPS last night just prior to my post and had no issues with ROF 15 in NXL mode.

Yeah this thing was driving me nuts. Like I said, last year the sticking issue started, but I always thought it was just the on/off pin acting up looking for attention and oil. (Which seemed to help at the time)

I put a different reg pin and plunger/sear from the etac and the sticking issue went away. I will experiment more to see if it was the plunger or reg pins fault. I will note that even though the old plunger seemed to move freely, the new one moves much much easier and free.

I am really looking forward to diving into this ROF issue. If it is indeed tank pressure, then I will be disapointed since that means when the input level drops under (Say 1k psi) the gun will not function properly at the higher ROF.

It also goes to show that even though the AGD 3.2 software went up to 20 bps, that no one is coming even close to that in semi.

I also am wondering what surprises are instore for the guys who get their emag predator boards. It is also curious how anyone with a pred2 or pred morlock hasnt had these issues, or at least anyone that we know of. I wonder if it is just the fact that there are so few of those guns out there that we never hear about any problem.

[11 Bravo]

^^^^^^^^ Or some people just dont have the problems. I have absolutely no probems at all with my Xmod. And have ramped up to 20 bps and I believe I flurted a little at 23 bps.

Note: This is on an Xmag with less than 5 cases of paint thru it.