How many times can an autococker cycle per second?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Vegeta
I was thinking having the area where hte water is completely sealed, and havign a ram push water on one end to push water on the other. The same would work with a vacuum in the tubes. but im talking serious component and it would be too bulky to run... hmmm just brainstorming dont kill me. :)

That is why I put in the first post about it:
"Liquid is too dense to move that fast and the storage and recovery harware needed to capture what is vented from the ram whan it changes directions would have to be pretty complex." Very complex and yes, quite bulky.

However, it is fairly common knowledge that "high speed" automation and hydraulics don't mix. Simply the nature of the beast. The benifit of hydraulics is the shear force that can be generated with high pressures and the stability of the media that cannot be compressed.
I have a high speed production screw machine in my shop that is air and hydraulic automation. Air provides the control logic and sequence indexing automation but all cutting tool movement is hydraulic with slow steady movement for high precision. Another machine for more heavy duty machining is all hydraulic and it far slower operation.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by nicad
Death to Vegeta!!!

Na. We don't need him dead. His thinking and "brainstorming" process just hasn't matured yet. :)

Besides, to me its fun to see how other people think stuff up. Keeps me on my toes.

[Vegeta]

ok ok i see. I was thinking along the "give a partice, take a partice" line.. which is true but doesn't work for hte reason you have stated. desisty.

I would really like to seee exactly how the air gets flowing when the gun is shooting at high ROF.. almost fast enough to where the air is just being puched back n forth by the 3 way, possibly cuaseing a small amount of air to be 'stuck' in the center of the tubing between the ram and 3 way.. what would be neat would be to run water through the block (hear me out) and them go through a cycling process, puming high pressure water into the reg, not air. And dye the water in the inlet to the ram tube blue, and hte outlet, red. then see the reation.

That would be very neat.

[Vegeta]

oh and I don't haev the vast knowledge and resources that some of you do! I'm going off of stuff in books... I'm only a freshman.. they don't teach you stuff like this in school.. you have to learn it on your own.

If you wanna see some of my more *intelligent* work it's best to look back in Deep Blue at other topics. This whole cocker thing I am not too great at. Never owned one before.

[Paladin]

I would really like to seee exactly how the air gets flowing when the gun is shooting at high ROF.. almost fast enough to where the air is just being puched back n forth by the 3 way, possibly cuaseing a small amount of air to be 'stuck' in the center of the tubing between the ram and 3 way.. what would be neat would be to run water through the block (hear me out) and them go through a cycling process, puming high pressure water into the reg, not air. And dye the water in the inlet to the ram tube blue, and hte outlet, red. then see the reation.

That would be very neat. [/B][/QUOTE]

Two ways to see what you are looking for that I know of.

1) Put a small water tank that can handle about 100 psi or so, between the regulator and the 4-way. (yes 4-way valve, not a "3-way") A few ounces of colored liquid should be sufficient. Connect the line from the regulator to the top of the tank and the line to the 4-way to the bottom of the tank. Pressure from the reg will force water to the 4-way and out to the ram until the tank is empty. Be prepared to get wet as the water vents from the ram and out of the 4-way.

2)Make an adapter fitting to connect your household water to supply (typically about 50 to 60 psi) directly to the input of the 4-way. Put some colored water in the hose and connect it to the faucet. Back out the adjuster on the reg completely so it isn't putting out any air and the water pressure should be enough to cycle the gun but it will be slow.

Have fun.

[Paladin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vegeta
[B]oh and I don't haev the vast knowledge and resources that some of you do! I'm going off of stuff in books...

"Knowledge and resources" are both just a matter of time and experience if you keep your head screwed on straight.

Keep it simple (K.I.S.S). This stuff only gets complicated when engineers get involved.

[DarkRipper]

The funny thing is that on the racegun forums ( http://www.racegun.dk ) we've been discussing the best ram for the race cocker, and the majority say the quickram. I'm switching mine out soon... I currently have a STO ram. I'll let you know if it's actually faster.

DR

[Paladin]

Originally posted by DarkRipper
The funny thing is that on the racegun forums ( http://www.racegun.dk ) we've been discussing the best ram for the race cocker, and the majority say the quickram. I'm switching mine out soon... I currently have a STO ram. I'll let you know if it's actually faster.

DR

I'm already sure that the QuikRam is faster but it will be interesting to see just how much so. I don't have the means to actually measure in millisecond increments.
If nothing else, the slightly larger shaft on the QuikRam means that less volume of air has to be vented during extension and less volume is also needed for retraction.
In addition, the air passage thru the hose barb fittings on the QuikRam is slightly larger as well; to allow for faster air flow into the ram.
On the other hand,the control valve (5-way?) or it's output fittings may also be a limiting factor as was the case with the early kit the we got from Racegun. The ram cannot move any faster than the air flow that it gets from the valve. If there is not adequate flow thru the valve, unfavorably high pressures are needed to compensate.

[nicad]

Glenn-
dmcbr900rr made this observation over in the racegun fourms..

If anyone is interested, I just changed out my Shocktec ram with a Palmer Quick ram and my opening times went from 40 mS down to 25 mS. I have had three different Shocktec rams on my marker and they all were the same opening times.

The time he is refering to there is the time it takes for the ram to open the bolt/hammer to catch the sear.

I think the Racegrips are awesome for timing such activities.. gives you a real feel for whats going on and when..

out!

[Paladin]

Originally posted by nicad
Glenn-
dmcbr900rr made this observation over in the racegun fourms..

The time he is refering to there is the time it takes for the ram to open the bolt/hammer to catch the sear.

I think the Racegrips are awesome for timing such activities.. gives you a real feel for whats going on and when..

out!

VERY interesting. I'm actually a bit surprised it is that much faster. Nearly 40%. KEWL !!!
(pats self on the back)hehe Thanks
Now we'll wait and see how many others get similar results before I can start bragging.
I wonder what the reduction in close time is going to be?

[pbjosh]

Paladin-

From my experience the Quick Ram is faster than the Evo by 2-10ms for the open. Normally we see 25-35ms for the open with the Quickrams. The only ram that is close is the older STO rams.

Josh

[Paladin]

Originally posted by pbjosh
Paladin-

From my experience the Quick Ram is faster than the Evo by 2-10ms for the open. Normally we see 25-35ms for the open with the Quickrams. The only ram that is close is the older STO rams.

Josh

Thanks. Those numbers are more like I would have expected; to put it in the 10-20% faster range.
Have you got any test numbers on close time ?

[billynup]

Originally posted by Paladin

Palmers Pursuit is likely to have a branch office in Thailand in the not too distant future. hehe

Ive been looking for an excuse to move back... need a tech for the office?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by billynup


Ive been looking for an excuse to move back... need a tech for the office?

If you can understand and speak Thai I may just be able to give you the "excuse". If all goes well, it would be about a year away.
Please E-mail me to [email protected]

[pbjosh]

Paladin-

Close times are harder to test. But I have tested the Close time (it takes alot of paint and time shooting F/A) and for the most part all the Rams close about 10-20% lower than the open time. Of course that means more testing. I will be tightening up my time on the Half-Block I have (with good old Palmer Front Pneus) and let you know how it does.

Billynup-

Sorry boy, you are staying.

Josh