How many times can an autococker cycle per second?

[the electrician]

interesting...

now I can understand why you would want two clocks for that function. it let's you see the effects of making ram mods and the biggie, changing your cocking psi. cocking psi is the main thing that effects open time, and of course, close time.
my cocking psi is about 50, using a STO ram that is modified to 1 1/4" stroke and an exhaust valve added to decrease opposition to the back stroke of the ram.the gun will work well at 35 psi, but I like the faster open and close times I get at 50 psi.

as far as times go, my times probly are different due to programming. what is your close time on the race? and what is it measured from?

I plan on trying a new bolt design that "should" increase fps and effeciency. but I'm sure some time adjustments will have to be made.

[kcpaintballer]

eliminating the lag in a cocker!

i was pondering upon copying the electricians idea for an electric cocker... then it hit me! the only reason a cocker is so slow is cause the ram is moving a back block, bolt, stainless pin, cocking rod, hammer, it is also working by compressing that darn spring. well just tonight i finished my e-cocker. it has a single acting ram in the bottom tube it is controlled by a mac, fed from a second lpr. the hammer is threaded to the ram. i am using a morlock board to control it. well my gun shoots and then the ram pulls the hammer back before the bolt is even moving to load a ball. the best part about this is that the pressure on the back block is minimal cause it doesnt need a whole lot of air just to move the bolt back and forth. sorry for my poor explanation. --travis--
p.s. it is almost impossible to chop a ball with this setup

[314159]

almost sounds like an excalibur...

[kcpaintballer]

kinda

kinda but on this the hammer ram is single acting so it actually starts to return during the valve dwell time. in a hurry will post more later --travis--

[fenris69]

hmmm

very nice kc , have you thought about a bolt to hammer linkage similar to a micrococker? I'm currently trying to work on a electro cocker drop in conversion without the aid of a controlling board...quite the pain finding an alternate way to delay the ram movement without the aid of a second switch :) That deadly wind project is one way to go with dual solonoids and a ram tripping the sear, he claims a 15bps or so, but there are other homemade projects on autococker.net using a morlock board....er...you wouldnt happen to be one of em?

[kcpaintballer]

not really

i wasnt trying to get the effect of a micrococker cause i want the ram that drives the bolt to have as little pressure as possible. if i were to use a linkage similar to that the ram would have to compress a spring and pullthe hammer assembly back all at once. this is what i believe slows down the cocker. my design does not depend upon the backblock moving anything but the bolt. the hammer assembly is all internal and has its own ram that controls it. --travis--
p.s. try a capacitor inline for the delay...

[fenris69]

booya

cool design you ended up with, post a pic! :)
A capacitor was suggested to my by my sysadmin actually, but I've yet to find one of suitable size and delay for the frame, but thats my main option at this point.

[Dubstar112]

I have an idea :)

Two X-ways: One at a low enough pressure to move the ball with out breaking it, or low enough to pinch, that would be the X-way used for closing the block. A separate one would be used for opening, at a higher pressure, to keep the opening cycle up to speed.

Ive got a couple ideas im going to test.

[Paladin]

A properly designed air cylinder (ram) can provide a substantial decrease in the force applied on the retraction side of the cylinder when compared to the force that is achieved on the extension stroke of the cylinder.
The reduction of force is equal to the amount of surface area of the face of the piston that is taken up by the shaft. The larger the shaft in relation to the piston size the greater the diferential in the force between extension and retraction of the cylinder.
Thus you can soften the return stroke inside the ram without using seperate controls and regulators for the automation.

Originally posted by Dubstar112
I have an idea :)

Two X-ways: One at a low enough pressure to move the ball with out breaking it, or low enough to pinch, that would be the X-way used for closing the block. A separate one would be used for opening, at a higher pressure, to keep the opening cycle up to speed.

Ive got a couple ideas im going to test.

[nicad]

listen to Paladin.. hes all about that! :-D

thats how i made my ram/bolt in this project.. it has about 3x the surface area pushing back as it does forward.

http://www.racegun.dk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1094&FORUM_ID=9&CAT_ID=2&Topic_Title=sorry+its+not+a+Race%2E%2E+but+ohwell%2E%2E+%3A%29&Forum_Title=Pictures

out!

[carr612]

...from finding out max rof to guessing the specs of the cocker with the highest rof, i thought this was 'deep blue', not 'stabbin' in the dark'...

[314159]

found this laying around, not shure if it has been posted before

http://www.planeteclipse.com/www2001/video/eframe_lores.wmv

[Redkey]

air cylinders

for example....

The Bimba ram on my desk has a 5/16 diameter body... I would guess a 0.25 diameter piston and a 1/8 (0.125) diameter shaft.

At 100 psi this ram could push (extend) with a force of 4.9 lbs and pull (retract) with a force of 3.6 lbs... a difference of about 25%.

[the electrician]

I don't believe Bimba makes a 1/4" bore cylinder, but they do make a 5/16" bore cylinder.on this cylinder the retraction power factor is about 84 percent of the extension force. so the difference isn't that much, but of course if the bore size decreases and the rod size stays the same, the difference in force will increase.

KCpaintballer,AKA Travis, hows your project going? there was another guy who had the same design as you that I was trading info with about a year ago, I wish I could remeber his name. He used to visit the Tinker's Guild regularly. he designed his own inegrated ram/hammer.

So you ended up going with a spring return, single acting cylinder? I have been working on a way to use one lpr to conrol both cylinders, the recock and hammer actuation. let me know how much psi your running into the hammer cylinder.

~E~

[kcpaintballer]

good!!

don, all help or references are appreciated... (you know that). i got her all together... now, all i have to perfect is those finishing touches i.e. brackets, hard lines, etc. about my hammer pressure... well its fairly low, but it could be lower, all i have to do is raise my input pressure and increase dwell. what i am so proud of is the bolt pressure, lets just say its about my age maybe less. shot a case of gap and not 1 break none in barrell or breach. also ran through some old midnite that had been sitting out for a long time. i had only 2 or 3 breaks but they were in barrell (swollen paint). the paint had been sitting out in the armory since the last hodge park tourney. later --travis--
p.s. i also got a new hopper... somethin you should check out :)