Deleting threads, stupid or not

[Muzikman]

You don't run off the folks that make AO what it is.... you do that and AO is worthless.

It's post like this and people like you that drove me away from AO, not the mods. I don't think I ever had a mod edit, delete or ban me because of any of my posts. I think this is because I am a rather upstanding citizen and play nice. Something that many AOers can't figure out.

[MaxPowers]

Wow look at all of the old timer AO guys showing up out of no where? Glad to see some familiar names.

[shartley]

It's post like this and people like you that drove me away from AO, not the mods. I don't think I ever had a mod edit, delete or ban me because of any of my posts. I think this is because I am a rather upstanding citizen and play nice. Something that many AOers can't figure out.

Honestly, good people (and people in general) have been run off/drove off of AO for many reasons... some because of mods, some because of cliques let run rampant and out of control, some for personal reasons, you name it. I don't see a totally righteous and "clean" side left on AO. Heck has there ever been?

Things have always been centered around friendships or dislikes of another member(s), with very little impartiality. It has seldom been about WHAT is being done, but WHO is doing it. And equal enforcement of rules (even concerning mod/admin actions) has been far and few between. But whether folks agree with it or speak up seems to be centered directly on how they feel about those under the axe or those doing the chopping, NOT what is actually being done or not done.

Then we see threads like these pop up and what is being argued is more so about who is arguing and the "side" they choose to be on at this particular moment than it is about realities or what is right or wrong. And we see this type of thing pop up every couple years or so. Funny though that I seldom see it on any other forum I belong to and actively post on. Yet it has become "tradition" on AO for some reason.

So no, it is not one side or the other in this issue that makes AO what it is and causes members to leave or participate very little (if at all). It is BOTH sides and the fact that nothing changes... it only runs in cycles.

I only post this because it is not fair for one side to act as if the ONLY good people are on "this side" or "that side", or that it is only those who see and post about problems that are "the problem". I have seen good people on every side of issues run off, and bad people on every side of issues doing the pushing. But folks are more interested in forming "teams" and demonizing anyone on the other side. or those who don't see things like they do.

Folks can't just state their opinions and let things go, but have to then FIGHT with anyone who disagrees with them. I was guilty of this as well in the past, but for reasons some may not realize was there (to create a draw and increase forum participation and membership). I was willing to take the roll of "heavy" and have folks love or hate me... until things went way too far and real reasons for all the discussions was lost in the "hunt" and "kill" by forum members and staff.

But we see it here still to this day. Look around. Only the "players" have changed. The situations and drama has not. And THAT my friend is the real reason people leave AO and AO continues to have the problems it does. The problem lies in the AO culture/sub-culture that has been allowed to continue, and it is not the fault of only one "type" of member on one "side" of the clique borders. It is because of general actions by members and staff alike that frankly would not be allowed on most reputable forums.

So many of us only come back from time to time to say hello to friends and see if anything new is happening. Well.... the answer to that question is no. And many of the "bad guys" blamed for problems in the past are no longer here (along with a lot of other great folks), yet we still see the same crap going on. Folks love to rag on PBN but AO is little more than another soap opera on a different channel.

And nothing will change when the blame for fault is isolated to only PART of the problem. Yes, sometimes our "friends" can be at fault too. But when lines are drawn by friendships and not FACTS, nothing will change.

[AutomagRT1483]

Man o man....I missed the bomb drop on this one. I leave AO for a while and come back for the aftermath.

[wimag]

Open Letter to the AO Moderators

Dear AO Moderation Team,
Why won't you implement or discuss any of these aforementioned changes? We've suggested updates to the rules, and even those who defend you agree that those updates should be made. We've asked for some sort of consistency in enforcing these rules, and received no assurance of intent to be equal and fair; in fact, all current indications point to a continued unequal application of the rules. We feel we are being disrespected. You refuse to discuss any of the issues at hand, except to say that we are uninformed. When we ask for information, you are silent. When we ask pointed questions to moderators who have posted in our threads, you are silent. When we don't understand policies and express concern and alarm, you delete and lock our threads. When we don't stop asking, you ban us.

We realize we are not the law here. We realize you have no obligation whatsoever to indulge us. We also realize that your actions in this matter are harming AO. We make no threats, but we wish for you to understand several things. Without us, you have no content. Without content, there is no AO. Yes, you can wait us out and we will go away, but when we go away so do our contributions. We don't want this to happen; we want AO to survive and flourish. Do not make the mistake of interpreting our desire to support AO as our satisfaction with your methods and intent. If you do not respect us, you will lose us.

Why can't these reasonable changes be made? Why can't you discuss any of these changes? Why do you ignore us? Why do you disrespect us by calling us ignorant and refusing to respond to our questions and concerns? We have nothing but the best intentions for AO. What do you have to lose by helping us achieve these goals, or by setting the record straight about which goals we should be trying to achieve? We are willing and eager to work with you, but we cannot work with you if you won't work with us. We don't want AO to suffer, and we don't want to leave, but we feel that, given your lack of response, we have no reasonable option but to take our opinions and contributions where they will be listened to. Please, help us continue to make AO great. We all have the same goal in mind, let's be open about our methods for accomplishing it and continue to foster the kind of cooperation and communication that made AO great in the first place.

dude... do yourself a favor and turn off the box for a while. You are getting worked up over something that is not really worth it. seriously.

[nmib]

With all those posts Lohman maybe might have seven useful ones now. Maybe.

[Lohman446]

With all those posts Lohman maybe might have seven useful ones now. Maybe.

Probably not, the ratio used to be about 1 in a thousand.

[behemoth]

so your ratios are goin' down, eh?

[Lohman446]

so your ratios are goin' down, eh?

Yeh... sad times.

[ThePixelGuru]

You do know they shot people on the Berlin wall right? If the Berlin wall is valid so is the Islamic terrorist analogy.

That said, neither analogy really helps the issue at hand.

Scale vs. kind, that's how analogies work, and the correct ones can clarify situations provided people are bright enough to understand them. If you don't get it by now, you never will. You'll just keep using it to mislead people in slanted polls.

[Lohman446]

Scale vs. kind, that's how analogies work, and the correct ones can clarify situations provided people are bright enough to understand them. If you don't get it by now, you never will. You'll just keep using it to mislead people in slanted polls.

No, you simply took away all parts of the Berlin wall that were not suited to your analogy, and then expect me to take full consideration of everything surrounding mine. Neither analogy is good, but I suppose you can try to keep yours and bash mine if it makes you feel better. I think they are both ridiculous personally.

[Target Practice]

Open Letter to ThePixelGuru


1 week for harassment. Army

[Foxworthy]

Sigh.

[Target Practice]

Sigh.

A++++++++++ WOULD READ AGAIN

[ThePixelGuru]

Open Letter to ThePixelGuru


1 week for harassment. Army

Hah, I guess you can only get so blatant before the moderators are forced to stop ignoring you. Better luck next time, maybe I'll even get to read it. Oh, and thanks, Army.

No, you simply took away all parts of the Berlin wall that were not suited to your analogy, and then expect me to take full consideration of everything surrounding mine. Neither analogy is good, but I suppose you can try to keep yours and bash mine if it makes you feel better. I think they are both ridiculous personally.

So then let's do like I keep suggesting and stop talking about 'em and start discussing the real issues.

The easiest change to make (and the most agreed upon) is updating the rules thread. It's not that hard, and even people who disagree with me in general agree that it's needed. My question is why the moderators won't do it, and what we need to do to get them to see that it's a good change to make. Let's start with having a comprehensive set of rules, and then we can move on to the more complicated issue of enforcement. Any ideas on how to get this one done?