Happy with your healthcare system?

[Ole Unka Phil]

This is what i didn't want the thread to turn into. Unless you have lived in both countries for a long enough period of time, you don't know both sides. It is not a matter of "if they can afford it or not" but it is a matter of "does the patient NEED the operation?".

"socialized Medicine has never worked well". What hasen't worked well? How? I have lived here my entire life, and i don't see what you mean by that.

"And often less than desirable level of care." please give me an example of that, please.

I don't want to compare both sides since they are operated in completly different ways. I will not talk about the US healthcare system since i don't know enough to make an educated argument. That's why i made this thread...to learn. So far, i see 2 different sides to this: some that are really not happy, some that say it's the best system of the world. How come no one can agree? Is it simply because of their different coverage policy?

How much life has that been?

So you don't really have anything to compare it to? So you assume then that the level of care you have gotten is excellent? How so?

There are two sides to anything ANYWHERE... I am sure you can agree that you can simply just look around you and find people that have been neglected by your system. People who got less than they needed because someone decided thats what they needed.

My Uncle suffered a serious Heart problem while in England this past year. He travels over there every Summer. Of course they felt that at his age it was not advisable to do the surgery to put in a shunt. He offered to pay but they couldn't make a decision like that because they had no way to extrapolate that into their system. They are more used to figuring out which hospital to classify you for. For instance they get to a certain threshold where they send you to Terminal hospital. Eventually (about two weeks later) he got his US insurance to fly him home, accompanied by a Nurse (required by airline) and got into Baltimore University Hospital where they immediately did the bypass surgery Because of that he is now back over in England in good enough health to travel. When he was there it was all their decisions driving the choices. Here it was him.

[maxama10]

This is what i didn't want the thread to turn into. Unless you have lived in both countries for a long enough period of time, you don't know both sides. It is not a matter of "if they can afford it or not" but it is a matter of "does the patient NEED the operation?".

"socialized Medicine has never worked well". What hasen't worked well? How? I have lived here my entire life, and i don't see what you mean by that.

"And often less than desirable level of care." please give me an example of that, please.

I don't want to compare both sides since they are operated in completly different ways. I will not talk about the US healthcare system since i don't know enough to make an educated argument. That's why i made this thread...to learn. So far, i see 2 different sides to this: some that are really not happy, some that say it's the best system of the world. How come no one can agree? Is it simply because of their different coverage policy?

Fundamental differences in our ideologies. Some people believe they deserve handouts because they are American.

Edit: Then there are people who believe everyone should have hand outs regardless of legal status.

[michbich]

How much life has that been?

So you don't really have anything to compare it to? So you assume then that the level of care you have gotten is excellent? How so?

There are two sides to anything ANYWHERE... I am sure you can agree that you can simply just look around you and find people that have been neglected by your system. People who got less than they needed because someone decided thats what they needed.

My Uncle suffered a serious Heart problem while in England this past year. He travels over there every Summer. Of course they felt that at his age it was not advisable to do the surgery to put in a shunt. He offered to pay but they couldn't make a decision like that because they had no way to extrapolate that into their system. They are more used to figuring out which hospital to classify you for. For instance they get to a certain threshold where they send you to Terminal hospital. Eventually (about two weeks later) he got his US insurance to fly him home, accompanied by a Nurse (required by airline) and got into Baltimore University Hospital where they immediately did the bypass surgery Because of that he is now back over in England in good enough health to travel. When he was there it was all their decisions driving the choices. Here it was him.

I do admit that getting healthcare from another country is difficult and complicated, no questions there. I have a friend that was on vacation in Florida last year. He drank too much one night, fell, banged his head on the corner of a table. Since there was a lot of blood, another friend called the ambulance. When the abulance arrived, my friend asked how much it would cost. It was 800$, so he took a taxi for 14$ instead. At the hospital, they provided the medicalcare. The bill amounted to 3500$ for the stiches and MRI. They had to max out all their credit cards or else he wouldn't be treated. Luckily, he had insurance through his father's job (didn't know at the time) and was re-imboursed a couple weeks after. All that to say that dealing with healthcare outside of your country is not always simple.

I'm 24, so personaly, i didn't need serious healthcare. Other than ear surgery, eye drilled and water burns (wich i still have many scars from).

My father has survived 2 cancers at 2 different occasions, he is now with one kidney and missing his spleen but still alive.

My friend collided with an 18wheeler with his Corsica last summer and has received every care needed, although he still has one last surgery after his knee finishes healing. He has atleast a year of physio to do after the last surgery.

My aunt had to wait 3 years before an operation, i don't remember what was her condition. During the last months before the operation, i do remember that she was in pain.

So am i satisfied with the healthcare that is provided? Yes. Is there room for improvement? Yes. I will say this though, it does take a long time to get an operation that is not concidered life treathning or that does not cause some degree of discomfort/pain.

Again, i don't know the US healthcare so i can't compare them. And i can't compare international healthcare with healthcare used in the country of the patient.

[Army]

TriCare? Wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

Sarah was covered by Blue Cross.

[bryceeden]

Well, I am and I'm not. From an EMS stand point Medicare(which MANY of our patients have) only pays like 60% of the bill the rest we have to eat, there is an attempt being made to drop that to 40% they would pay(very bad idea). THese people also frequently abuse the system and call us to take them to the ER because they are lonely, all in all it costs us alot of money to do what the government requires. This is a huge problem and results in us having to charge those who do pay alot more so we can keep our doors open. If you figure the amount we loose on Medicare people and the amount we loose from lawsuits we shouldn't even be involved in but since we drove the person from point A to point B the lawyer decides to include us(accident lawyers need to be rounded up and banished to a small island somewhere as they are of more harm than use) Its amazing that there arn't more EMS services closing thier doors each year. Health care is extreamly expencive because we are private sector(hospitles too) and as such have to make our own money and take care of ourselves with no govenment help, but the government tells us we have to treat the person and can never refuse(don't get me wrong, I support this) but also refuses to pay what we charge and need from the people it "pays" for(Medicare, disability, SSI, ETC). Do the math, the money has to come from somewhere so it comes from those who are paying themselves thus healthcare is expencive and one of the leading causes of bankrupsey. Sad but true. If Medicare tax was alittle more and they would pay 100%(or even 80%) of the bill the price for everyone else would be so much cheaper and the "Healthcare crisis" really wouldn't exist. Also EMS should be a government entity like Police and Fire, it would be better in most aspects that way for everyone except the owners of ambulance agencys.

[michbich]

...
Also EMS should be a government entity like Police and Fire, it would be better in most aspects that way for everyone except the owners of ambulance agencys.

About the police and fire stand point, since healthcare is private, why aren't the other two private aswell? Looking at it, if you're wallet controls your health, shouldn't your wallet control your protection? Why is one private while the other is public?

[maxama10]

I know, where I live, we have to pay if they have to put out a fire for us.


I live in a town of 2500 though.

[robnix]

About the police and fire stand point, since healthcare is private, why aren't the other two private aswell? Looking at it, if you're wallet controls your health, shouldn't your wallet control your protection? Why is one private while the other is public?

Look up the myths and lies of the Triangle Shirt Factory fire for some insight into this.

http://www.flakmag.com/books/triangle.html

[Dark Side]

tricare rocks doesn't it!

Compared to having nothing, I suppose it does; but with all the extra crap that has to be done, no it does not. Not to mention, Motrin does not work on me.

[maxama10]

That link you provided really doesn't go into detail about the fire much. I'm sure you had a point though... maybe you could find another link that would explain a little more?

[bryceeden]

I know, where I live, we have to pay if they have to put out a fire for us.


I live in a town of 2500 though.

Yes, they do charge someplaces, others the taxes are raised to pay for it in the end. But its different, the money fire makes goes to equipment, training, paying firefighters, and whatever as its a government agency there is no one on the top making aton of money. In EMS there is usually a person who owns the service and they usually make alot in the end. I am fortunate as my agency invests alot in to training and equipment, but there are alot of agencys out there that are poorly trained, have extreamly outdated gear, and the owner puts a ton in his pocket. As a general rule firefighters and police also make quite a bit more than EMTs and definatly have a better retirement.

[bryceeden]

About the police and fire stand point, since healthcare is private, why aren't the other two private aswell? Looking at it, if you're wallet controls your health, shouldn't your wallet control your protection? Why is one private while the other is public?

Police= the finest
Fire= the bravest
EMS=the forgotten

No, I really don't know. Some citys the Ambulances are run by the fire dept but thats the minority. The big one to answer is why in most big citys if a lady is having a heart attack(or any injury) do they roll a fire engine on it and then page out an ambulance? Rolling the Fire truck isn't cheap and really seems like a dumb waste of tax money as they aren't needed, we shock people with 360J when we shock but I've still never had one burst into flames.

[aaron_mag]

Heh heh...

I haven't been to Automags.org in years. The 'friendly' corner hasn't changed a bit! Our healthcare in our country is pretty screwed up. It is all wonderful to talk about 'I get what I can afford'. That works great until you lose your job and have a pre-existing condition. I know a family with three kids where, with the recent economic downturn, they both lost their jobs (one was in the mortgage industry and one parent was in construction). She is a breast cancer survivor.

Now they never complain and they are hugely religious. They have faith in the future. But I can't help but wonder if she is going to be able to get coverage later. To say, "Hey...that is okay. At least I'm taken care of..." is a bit short-sighted. Any of us could easily find ourselves in that kind of situation. Plus there is a little thing called empathy that just might make you say, "Well even if I don't ever have to worry about it maybe it isn't right for others to go through it either..."

This reminds me of all the debates we used to have prior to the Iraq war with both camps firmly entrenched. Thankfully all the 'conservatives' on here were proven right and we 'liberals', who doubted both the man of great foresight (our president) and his motives were proven wrong.

[maxama10]

Heh heh...

I haven't been to Automags.org in years. The 'friendly' corner hasn't changed a bit! Our healthcare in our country is pretty screwed up. It is all wonderful to talk about 'I get what I can afford'. That works great until you lose your job and have a pre-existing condition. I know a family with three kids where, with the recent economic downturn, they both lost their jobs (one was in the mortgage industry and one parent was in construction). She is a breast cancer survivor.

Now they never complain and they are hugely religious. They have faith in the future. But I can't help but wonder if she is going to be able to get coverage later. To say, "Hey...that is okay. At least I'm taken care of..." is a bit short-sighted. Any of us could easily find ourselves in that kind of situation. Plus there is a little thing called empathy that just might make you say, "Well even if I don't ever have to worry about it maybe it isn't right for others to go through it either..."

This reminds me of all the debates we used to have prior to the Iraq war with both camps firmly entrenched. Thankfully all the 'conservatives' on here were proven right and we 'liberals', who doubted both the man of great foresight (our president) and his motives were proven wrong.

Thats sympathy, empathy is where you have been there before and so are able to relate.

Anyways, yeah, I wouldn't mind paying taxes to people who could genuinely use help, too many people take advantage though...

[aaron_mag]

Thats sympathy, empathy is where you have been there before and so are able to relate.

Anyways, yeah, I wouldn't mind paying taxes to people who could genuinely use help, too many people take advantage though...

I'm in healthcare appraisal (I appraise hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living, etc).

From what I see we are partially doing the whole healthcare crisis to ourselves. What the previous generation had is not good enough for us. In nursing homes they used to have three plus people in the same room. And hospital maternity rooms were the same. But that isn't good enough for us now. Now everyone has to have a private room. And it has to look pretty. Etc, etc.

Then we complain about, "Why is insurance costing so much more?"

Ah well...