Guns, guns, guns

[CoolHand]

Is that as in the permit is not required after of December 06? If that be the case then you may be right as I have not checked in afew years. My info comes from local police, and hanging out with alot of gun nuts who do have full autos and such. I don't have any place you can look it up, sorry, I wanted to buy an MP5/P90 and thats what I was told I decided it wasn't worth the yearly fee. I have a class with a guy who owns a gun shop tonight, I'll find out for sure and let you know.

Yes, please do that. Specific statues would be of the most use, but a place to look would be better than nothing at all.

I'd be very interested to find out if the ATF's "comprehensive" list of state laws, really is or not.

It wouldn't be the first time that the feds have publish incomplete or incorrect information.

[Pneumagger]

If Utah has preemption with gun laws, then laws should be the same statewide... but if there is no state or federal preemption, then you'll have to check local or county laws before purchasing. MP5's are highy sought after and wil run you several thousand dollars - I'd recommend a registered M16 with 9mm conversion cause it's more modular and a few thousand cheaper.

No offense to your buddies... but alot of cops don't know jack **** about federal firearms laws. Civies can only own pre-1986 full auto guns and have to pay taxes on them. Limited supply = high price. Cops can purchase New MGs at MSRP. My local chief will not sign my Form 4 requests for machine guns and silencers, so I have to take other routes when purchasing them. If I were a cop and didn't have to buy from the civilian market why would even bother myself with worrying about them.

As Price references for civie guns:
Macs $3000-$4000
UZIs $6000-$7500
M16 $12000-$15000
Hk Guns $17000-$20000
Thompsons $25000+
M60's $35000-$50000


Subguns.com - It's the eBay of NFA items.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?website=&language=&session_key=

[paintballfiend]

Where do you guys live where you have a constant fear that a deranged psycho killer is going to come into your house to kill your family? I ask so I know what neighbhorhoods to avoid.

[kruger]

Where do you guys live where you have a constant fear that a deranged psycho killer is going to come into your house to kill your family? I ask so I know what neighbhorhoods to avoid.

This statement is sorta disturbing to me. Do you think that there is any area that is completely safe? You can never be absolutely sure that you are safe anywhere, so you do what you can to plan for any contingency. You never know exactly what is going on in the minds of anybody else or how they are going to react. Granted, it is rare that a psycho killer runs loose randomly killing people, but the common thief breaking into your home just looking to steal something can quickly become a killer if caught in the act. I plan for the worst and hope for the best and I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[paintballfiend]

This statement is sorta disturbing to me. Do you think that there is any area that is completely safe? You can never be absolutely sure that you are safe anywhere, so you do what you can to plan for any contingency. You never know exactly what is going on in the minds of anybody else or how they are going to react. Granted, it is rare that a psycho killer runs loose randomly killing people, but the common thief breaking into your home just looking to steal something can quickly become a killer if caught in the act. I plan for the worst and hope for the best and I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I know safety is just an allusion. There is a chance that someone can break into my house, and there is a chance that they won't. What disturbs me is how many people fear their neighbors.

[DevilMan]

Where do you guys live where you have a constant fear that a deranged psycho killer is going to come into your house to kill your family? I ask so I know what neighbhorhoods to avoid.

The correct assumption on wanting to know where they live is so you can become their neighbor....

But then I'm bit more logical than most.

DM

[CoolHand]

I know safety is just an allusion. There is a chance that someone can break into my house, and there is a chance that they won't. What disturbs me is how many people fear their neighbors.

It's generally not their neighbors they fear. It's the random guy cruising through town who needs to score some cash to make it to his next gas stop, and doesn't have anything left to lose. In the big city, it's the drug dealers and the gang bangers who come looking for an easy mark. Out here in BFE, it's the random rabid dog or coyote killing your livestock or just being too close to your house and kids. It's also the meth head who's not thinking about anything but how he's going to pay for his next hit.

These people and animals are not the folks your live around day to day, they're the people you hope you never meet in your lifetime.

The great majority of people who own and carry SD weapons in their home or elsewhere will never use them. Does that mean they should not have them?

Do you have a smoke detector in your house? Has your housed ever caught on fire or burned down before? If not, why bother having a smoke detector?

If you have a smoke detector, let me know where you live, so I can avoid neighborhoods that burst into flames randomly.

See where I'm going with this?

[Pneumagger]

Where do you guys live where you have a constant fear that a deranged psycho killer is going to come into your house to kill your family? I ask so I know what neighbhorhoods to avoid.

That's not why I buy guns. I don't even have a Concealed Carry license and don't feel the need for one.
I buy guns because they are incredibly fun tThe fact that they add to home protection is a plus.

I'd rather have and enjoy my guns and never need them than to actually need them one day and not have them.

[paintballfiend]

It's generally not their neighbors they fear. It's the random guy cruising through town who needs to score some cash to make it to his next gas stop, and doesn't have anything left to lose. In the big city, it's the drug dealers and the gang bangers who come looking for an easy mark. Out here in BFE, it's the random rabid dog or coyote killing your livestock or just being too close to your house and kids. It's also the meth head who's not thinking about anything but how he's going to pay for his next hit.

These people and animals are not the folks your live around day to day, they're the people you hope you never meet in your lifetime.

The great majority of people who own and carry SD weapons in their home or elsewhere will never use them. Does that mean they should not have them?

Do you have a smoke detector in your house? Has your housed ever caught on fire or burned down before? If not, why bother having a smoke detector?

If you have a smoke detector, let me know where you live, so I can avoid neighborhoods that burst into flames randomly.

See where I'm going with this?

I can see where you are coming from. If you want to keep a hand gun around for self-defense then go for it. As for an assult weapon, can someone explain the need to own them. Don't take it the wrong way, I want to understand different opinions about them.

[CoolHand]

I can see where you are coming from. If you want to keep a hand gun around for self-defense then go for it. As for an assult weapon, can someone explain the need to own them. Don't take it the wrong way, I want to understand different opinions about them.

They're fun to shoot and cool to look at and work on.

Need is not a necessary component to the second amendment.

You don't need an Ego or a Viking to play PB, why would you want one?

[Pneumagger]

I can see where you are coming from. If you want to keep a hand gun around for self-defense then go for it. As for an assult weapon, can someone explain the need to own them. Don't take it the wrong way, I want to understand different opinions about them.

I would not use an assault weapon for home defense unless forced to. Every bullet you ever fire in home defese has a lawyer attached to it. Do I really feel like having a lawyer holding up an AR15 M4 replica in front of a jury? Or even a Glock with 33rnd magazine?
HECK NO!

I'd want that lawer to be holding "grandpas revolver", a break action shotgun or lever action rifle.
All are well off for home defense and look very civilized.

Believe me - my "sporting" 12ga over under might only have 2 shots, but I know which end I'd rather be on.

[maxama10]

I can see where you are coming from. If you want to keep a hand gun around for self-defense then go for it. As for an assult weapon, can someone explain the need to own them. Don't take it the wrong way, I want to understand different opinions about them.

Why shouldn't I? Might not be as practical as a pistol for self defense, however for those zombies...


Seriously though... If some coyote came prowling around my house, or a meth addict etc... I've got about 30 rounds of .223 vs 10 or less of .45 or so. In Reno, Mountain Lions have been eating small dogs and cats and children in yards, .223 would be excellent for something like this.

Then again, I live in NV for a reason...screw our neighboring state. P.S. NV sees a lot of Californians coming over to make Meth in trailers out in the hills. No I don't have any evidence, just word of mouth.


I take my M4 with me when I go wheelin' or camping.


It's also a dang good gun for shooting jack rabbits.

Edit: good point above, I typically keep my Remington 870 12 Gauge closer for defense.

[kruger]

Very few people actually own an assault weapon. If you are talking about the way a gun looks then, I am not sure what the relevance of the question is. Some collect for the history aspect of it and are coveted for that reason. You really have to narrow what you mean by need. Do you need more than one type of paintball marker? Need more than one car? Or, for that matter more than one tv? Or,even one tv? When you let the government tell you what you need, then things go down hill very quickly. I may feel the need to own a FA gun, and never use it in defense. Who are you to tell me that I dont. As long as I am a responsible owner, then what does it matter to you what I own? How many knives do I need to own? WHat size? Each persons needs are different. I personally do not feel that I need an M16, but just because I dont doesnt mean that the other guy should not have one. Gun ownership is not something that should be taken lightly. It really is an awesome responsibility. You have to be willing to take responsibility for whatever actions that occur when you use a gun.

[Target Practice]

You'll wish you had that M16 when those goddamn blue-helmeted fascists from the UN march on Anytown, USA.

[CoolHand]

I would not use an assault weapon for home defense unless forced to. Every bullet you ever fire in home defese has a lawyer attached to it. Do I really feel like having a lawyer holding up an AR15 M4 replica in front of a jury? Or even a Glock with 33rnd magazine?
HECK NO!

I'd want that lawer to be holding "grandpas revolver", a break action shotgun or lever action rifle.
All are well off for home defense and look very civilized.

Believe me - my "sporting" 12ga over under might only have 2 shots, but I know which end I'd rather be on.

Lawyerisms aside, a rifle is just an unwieldy device to try and use in an environment that is:

1) Spatially Constricted or Cluttered with Obstacles such that engagement will occur at very close ranges.
2) In a populated area or near things or people you do not wish to break or kill.
3) Takes place in at a time or in a place that increases the chances of the opponent coming from an unexpected direction (IE you're looking for someone and you have no idea where they're at), forcing you to shift your aim point radically in a short amount of time.

All those things add up to a perfect recipe for a semi-auto pistol of some sort. My second choice would be a very short shot gun of some type, preferably a semi-auto with pistol grips front and rear, short a barrel as possible, etc.

But since I'm a pretty good shot with a pistola, I defer to the 1911 for my HD needs (which thankfully are very few).