Ammunition selection

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  • Lohman446
    Useful posts: 7
    • Jun 2003
    • 9315

    #1

    Ammunition selection

    I'm having a hard time moving from the 38 J frame to the Glock 26. I really like my J frame Smith, have had it long enough and shot it enough that I really like it. I learned to shoot pistols with a Colt Detective Special and the J frame snub is just natural.

    That being said the snubbie has its limitations. Even after all the practice shots at 25 yards are highly questionable - there is not even an attempt to consider head shots past 10. 5 shots and a DAO mean double taps are out of the question and escalating stopping power if the first three shots to center of mass are ineffective leaves one with very little room for error.

    So, I'm convinced to become as familair with the G26 as I have been with my Kimber Ultra Carry or the little J-frame.

    The key in any 9MM in defense is ammo selection. The 40 and 45 do not have a lot of inneffective rounds - the 9MM does. That being said the top 9MM rounds appear to be nearly as effective as the top 45 rounds.

    I am down to considering the Federal Hydrashock (124 grain) and the Corbon DPX using a 115 grain all copper bullet.

    I have always used Hydrashocks in the .45 and the .38. Assuming reliable feed of both I am leaning towards the DPX in the 9MM. The all copper bullet exhibits great penetration of denim and leather (and sheet metal actually) with a reasonable 13" penetration in ballistic gelatin. It also shows good expansion and near 100% weight retention. Those who have tried them in G26s show great groupings and no feed issues (obviously I am going to run some myself). At this point I'm going to pick up a box of Federals and Corbons for this and range test them. Since defense loads tend to be fairly pricey I only run about a box of true defense rounds a month in practice (other than that I use a cheap ammo with similiar weight) and do not want to buy all the different options out there just to test. On the other hand I don't want to not consider a well performing option.

    I'm open to listening and wonder if the AO experts as they are have any opinions.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess
  • VTLO910
    Ballin' since early '90s..
    • Jan 2008
    • 215

    #2
    I can't really speak for other calibers, But I found 124+p Remington Golden Sabres to be a great round overall.

    I have a friend who is law enforcement of many years and a firearms instructor who did ballistic test... I'll try to get his results for you...

    Comment

    • Steelrat
      I meant to...uh, nevermind
      • May 2003
      • 5375

      #3
      Corbons always test well, good rounds. The venerable hydrashocks are somewhat outdated, unfortunately. VT is right, the Golden Sabre is a pretty good round.

      Keep in mind that no matter what you shoot them with, it's going to hurt. A lot.

      If anyone even dares to mention Black Talons, I will drive to their houses and whip them to withing inches of their miserable lives.


      A site for gay and alternative lifestyles: www.zakvetter.com

      Comment

      • CoolHand
        Logic Industries LLC
        • Jan 2003
        • 3769

        #4
        Originally posted by Steelrat
        Corbons always test well, good rounds. The venerable hydrashocks are somewhat outdated, unfortunately. VT is right, the Golden Sabre is a pretty good round.

        Keep in mind that no matter what you shoot them with, it's going to hurt. A lot.

        If anyone even dares to mention Black Talons, I will drive to their houses and whip them to withing inches of their miserable lives.
        You know, the Winchester Ranger SXT round is just a slightly improved version of the Black Talon . . . . without the black coating or the "evil" name.

        It's as good an SD ammo as any other, as is Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, TAP, Hydra-Shok, Cor-Bon, etc. Hell, there's a lot of folks out there that swear by the Winchester White Box JHP stuff you get from Wal-Mart (though personally, I don't feel comfortable trusting my life to a box of ammo from Wally World, but it may be a really good round too, I dunno).

        The difference in performance between the absolute best and the middle of the road premium JHP rounds is really pretty small.

        Like Steelrat just said, any round will put the hurtin' on somebody, and but good.

        The most important thing to worry about is finding ammo that will feed through your weapon with 100% reliability, and that you can practice with enough to be sure you're gonna put the rounds where they count (IE in the BG, not the wall, floor, or ceiling).

        The .45 I leave loaded has Hornady TAP 230 gr JHP +P rounds in it. They've gone several hundred rounds now without a mis-feed or malfunction of any kind in that pistol, so they're the one's I use (or rather hope to never have to use).

        Ryan Shanks
        Logic Industries LLC

        Comment

        • Lohman446
          Useful posts: 7
          • Jun 2003
          • 9315

          #5
          I agree with the idea that the middle of the road stuff is generally good enough. That being said when I'm playing down in 9MM I want the best I can get hold of . I understand the Corbon is fairly expensive at like $1.50 a round but I am only going to run about 20 through a month (assuming it shoots reasonably like the target ammo) and it is the stuff I would be needing if I needed it.

          Don't know, still looking.
          "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

          Comment

          • VTLO910
            Ballin' since early '90s..
            • Jan 2008
            • 215

            #6
            To the best of my knowledge... Last I heard... maybe two years ago, CORBON was having a few issues with Quality Control...

            It may be resolved by now, but tossing it out there...

            I thought the Winchester Ranger Ammo was for Law Enforcement use...? Shy of a box here or there being sold from LEO to civilian, I did not think regular Joe Civy could buy it...



            You could always try this stuff and let us know... DOUBLE TAP

            Double Tap Ammo

            Appears they have +p in 115, 124, AND 147 grains...

            I know this much about Double Tap. for 10mm, you would be hard pressed to find anything better. This guy takes time to load right. I have about 3 friends who have 10mm and say this stuff is fantastic... That being said, the focus was 10mm...

            I'd be interested to see how it was for other calibers...

            Comment

            • bryceeden
              www.vernalpaintball.com
              • Dec 2002
              • 1076

              #7
              Just for Steelrat I have to say Black Talons, sorry but they are an awsome round. I know ALOT of cops that wish they could still carry them. The goal in a shooting is to make the bad guy loose enough blood internally or externally that his brain can no longer function and in doing so shut him down for good. Black Talons caused such massive internal damage that it made it easy to do. Remember the brainstem shot(the only instant kill) is pretty much impossable in the heat of a gun fight, so you need ammo that will tear up thier insides and disturb circulation.

              Anyway, there is no actual scientific data available for which round does the most damage to a person, in the words of Dr. Sydney Vail
              Are they aware that the bullet they are presently carrying and use to protect the public and themselves has no scientifically validated data to support its claim of human tissue performance?
              There is an article writen by Dr. Vail where he talks about wound ballistics and explains some common misconceptions http://www.tacticalmedicine.com/files/TacwepJan08.pdf

              I use COR-BON and have always been very pleased with them for accuracy and the ballistics tests on them have always been good so hopefully they'd do well on a real person.
              Last edited by bryceeden; 05-06-2008, 03:10 PM.

              Comment

              • CoolHand
                Logic Industries LLC
                • Jan 2003
                • 3769

                #8
                Originally posted by VTLO910
                . . . . . I thought the Winchester Ranger Ammo was for Law Enforcement use...? Shy of a box here or there being sold from LEO to civilian, I did not think regular Joe Civy could buy it......
                Nope, you, me, or anyone else can buy Win Ranger ammo, it's billed as "Law Enforcement Ammunition", but that's marketing mumbo jumbo, not rooted in law or policy in any way.

                Type "Winchester Ranger SXT" into Google and you'll come up with a dozen places online selling it. You just have to be 21 yrs old ('cause it's handgun ammo, not 'cause of the brand).

                If it were illegal, the cops who supposedly "sell it to the civi's" would be in deep doodoo, post haste, as would the plethora of guys selling the stuff on GunBroker.com

                But like I said, if you hit what you're aiming at, just about any premium JHP is going to do serious damage.

                To Lohman I'd say, if you're that worried about terminal performance that you must have the absolute best bullet in 9mm in order to be sure it'll do the job, perhaps a step up in caliber is in order?

                It's like the old race motor adage about making horsepower, "There's no replacement for displacement."

                Ryan Shanks
                Logic Industries LLC

                Comment

                • Steelrat
                  I meant to...uh, nevermind
                  • May 2003
                  • 5375

                  #9
                  I know about the SXT, it's a good round. The issue I have with the black talon is that the name took on a life of it's own. People spouted on and on about it just because it was the cool thing. Remember all those lame stories on TV about the deadly black talon round. It was just nuts. Effective round, but they made it sound like it was a 9mm nuclear bomb.

                  And I forgot about TAP. I only have first hand experience with the 5.56 one, but it's pretty damn effective. And pretty damn expensive.


                  A site for gay and alternative lifestyles: www.zakvetter.com

                  Comment

                  • CoolHand
                    Logic Industries LLC
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 3769

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Steelrat
                    . . . . And pretty damn expensive.
                    Ah, but I can buy wholesale . . . . . .



                    Of my options, the TAP was the cheapest, with Magtech Guardian Gold being next cheapest, both of which were less than $18 / box of 20 (for .45 ACP, I'd have to check and see what 9mm is).

                    It's higher than FMJ to be sure, but but it's not like I burn through a lot of it either.

                    I pretty much only do a full function run when I've made a big change to the pistol, so it's not like I'm shooting hundreds of rounds of the stuff a month. When I do run a lot of rounds though, it hurts. Last trip with the TAP was about $75 worth of ammo.

                    And I thought PB guns and Race Cars were expensive.

                    I originally gravitated toward the TAP because of it's truncated cone shaped bullet. It looked a lot more likely to feed reliably, and the +P wasn't loaded so hot that it breaks your wrists (950 FPS, and as it turned out, I can't really tell a difference in the recoil from standard pressure loads), plus the TAP has some kind of additive that reduces muzzle flash (which I basically can't see, even near dusk). The lower than average price was a nice surprise when I went to order the first batch.
                    Last edited by CoolHand; 05-06-2008, 07:23 PM.
                    Ryan Shanks
                    Logic Industries LLC

                    Comment

                    • Lohman446
                      Useful posts: 7
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 9315

                      #11
                      I ordered in 100 rounds of the Corbon to function test - assuming I have no reliability issues (and there are no reports of it from anywhere I have seen) I am going with it.

                      Now I'm playing holster selection. I have a Galco Sky-ops I'm breaking in for tuckable, thinking a Kramer IWB #3 for normal wear. I have never had an issue with IWB holsters being comfortable for me. I did order a better gun belt in shark skin - ran across it while holster shopping .

                      *Corbon claims there past reliability issues were underloads by a disgruntled employee during a move. There have not been reports of it lately.
                      Last edited by Lohman446; 05-07-2008, 07:54 AM.
                      "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                      Comment

                      • VTLO910
                        Ballin' since early '90s..
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 215

                        #12
                        RM Holsters

                        If you like Kydex, these holders are awesome!

                        I rock my GLOCK all day, in and out of cars and this has been about as comfortable as I have found so far...

                        Use it with OR without a belt, I have been known to use it with a bathing suit and stretchy type waist pants... Obviously too loose is too loose, but they are great...

                        I primarily use the LOW RIDER IWB... The cant on it is PERFECTO... Even guys I know, who know I carry can't tell when I am or not because it reduces the "Printing" so much...

                        It does not cost much, so you really have nothing to lose b trying it...

                        The owner is a great guy too... He is actually the same one I am trying to get that ballistics report from...

                        If need be, I can takes some pics of mine if it helps you...

                        Comment

                        • Steelrat
                          I meant to...uh, nevermind
                          • May 2003
                          • 5375

                          #13
                          Spend the money and get a milt sparks or other custom. Avoid the kydex holsters.


                          A site for gay and alternative lifestyles: www.zakvetter.com

                          Comment

                          • Lohman446
                            Useful posts: 7
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 9315

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Steelrat
                            Spend the money and get a milt sparks or other custom. Avoid the kydex holsters.
                            Agreed - I'm leaning towards Kramer, I like a touch more cant than the "FBI cant" and the #3 does exactly that. Its horsehide so should hold up well, even if it is a bit stiff to start. I'm not a great big fan of the Milt Sparks (not enough cant, and 26 week wait). I have always liked the Bianchi professional but am going to try something a little more "custom" this time. I thought about doing something exotic like shark skin for the holster, but decided that was just vanity.
                            "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                            Comment

                            • Aegis
                              To old for this
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 596

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Steelrat
                              Corbons always test well, good rounds. The venerable hydrashocks are somewhat outdated, unfortunately. VT is right, the Golden Sabre is a pretty good round.

                              Keep in mind that no matter what you shoot them with, it's going to hurt. A lot.

                              If anyone even dares to mention Black Talons, I will drive to their houses and whip them to withing inches of their miserable lives.
                              Black Talons Rule.

                              Remember, your hands are claws.
                              my feedback thread

                              It's EEEE-gis:

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