motorcycle guys! and anyone

[MoeMag]

Howdy...

What is the BEST 600cc bike engine?
I'm talking stupid high preformance.

I was pointed toward a honda CBR600.

If you could have ANYTHING and mod it up (sans NOS). what would it be.

I dont really care about the bike... just the engine.

[DevilMan]

Pretty much any of the 600 supers these days are running the same.

I mean there are minor differences but when it comes to performance they level out pretty well from what I've seen. The most of the changes and such are how the person feels on the bike in distance to pegs and bars and such.

If you are looking to get an engine for a project I would look at what's available then do a google search of 600RR Engine Problems and such as that. There may be a few with recall issues like the oil sumps not designed right, or a cam bearing being faulty and such as that.

I'd also look into whether or not you want Carbs or Throttle Bodies... (IE Fuel Injection) That will play a vital part of your design. And lastly take into account common parts and electronic upgrades. When it comes to pipes and air intakes and such they all again come out equal in alot of ways, if you are doing a super duper grocery getting go kart idea then find out what engines have Power Commanders made for them that would allow you to remap the engines behavior.

Hope it helps... and good luck with the search.

OH and Screw NOS.... Get Blown!!!

DM

[sandfreestyle]

What is this going to be for? That will play the major part in what engine woud best suit your needs.

Every engine has its ups and downs. Some are better for stuning and others are best for drag/sandrail applications.

[oneworld]

Honda CBR all the way man...(RR of course) itl go FOREVER(friend has 118k on his) and they are much easier to maintain/work on IMO.

[pk5]

Engine: Depend on your purpose and what you really want out of it. Anything from the CBR or the one on the Buell will work just fine, just kinda depend on what you want the end result to be.

Beside that, are you planning on putting the engine on something else or just buy a bike because of it engine?

The only few that i can ride without having to tippie toe though are the: modified seat cbr, buell blast, and the SV650 . I like the SV650 but to each person their own taste.

[MoeMag]

Its gonna get messed up pretty good. I was just voted in to be in charge of my universities first Formula SAE race team. It was a big suprise for me today! there is a lot of work to do.

Check out some vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3OvAolLcw <another Arizona team Video for this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmp1LiCY5dM <German teams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ti5G4jFSo&feature=related

It has to run with a 20mm restrictor plate, some custom ECU, and at this point... a lot more than I can think... so that being said... at least a stable easy to get parts platform to mess around with.

I know a lot of you are into bikes... so its a great place to start. haha.

EDIT: oh yeah... fuel injection.

[skife]

Its gonna get messed up pretty good. I was just voted in to be in charge of my universities first Formula SAE race team. It was a big suprise for me today! there is a lot of work to do.

Check out some vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3OvAolLcw <another Arizona team Video for this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmp1LiCY5dM <German teams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ti5G4jFSo&feature=related

It has to run with a 20mm restrictor plate, some custom ECU, and at this point... a lot more than I can think... so that being said... at least a stable easy to get parts platform to mess around with.

I know a lot of you are into bikes... so its a great place to start. haha.

EDIT: oh yeah... fuel injection.

that last video was sweet how he just blew by that caterham

what are you going to be running for EFI? megasquirt?

[sandfreestyle]

Its gonna get messed up pretty good. I was just voted in to be in charge of my universities first Formula SAE race team. It was a big suprise for me today! there is a lot of work to do.

Check out some vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3OvAolLcw <another Arizona team Video for this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmp1LiCY5dM <German teams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ti5G4jFSo&feature=related

It has to run with a 20mm restrictor plate, some custom ECU, and at this point... a lot more than I can think... so that being said... at least a stable easy to get parts platform to mess around with.

I know a lot of you are into bikes... so its a great place to start. haha.

EDIT: oh yeah... fuel injection.

What are your engine displacement limitations? What mods are you limited to?

If I had a choice, I would go with a Hyabusa engine with a big bore kit and turbo. Make it run on alcohol/methanol and that should put you some where in the 500 HP range

[MoeMag]

that last video was sweet how he just blew by that caterham

what are you going to be running for EFI? megasquirt?

It will be some form of EFI. many of the teams have extensivly modified ECU controllers that quite honestly are beyond my understanding currently. a lot of teams join up with their IEEE clubs to design a system for their car. In our case we are very lucky to have a returning student who is a SAE certified mechanic in as far as we can tell EVERYTHING, who has a bach in electrical engineering. I had to look up megasquirt... def looks like something I need to look into.

We are just getting started.. so the honest answer is I dont know yet.

What are your engine displacement limitations? What mods are you limited to?

If I had a choice, I would go with a Hyabusa engine with a big bore kit and turbo. Make it run on alcohol/methanol and that should put you some where in the 500 HP range

Yeah. one of those cars with a decked out hyabusa would be a monster death trap.

but sadly...

it is a 610cc 4 stroke pistion engine with a 20mm restrictor plate running 93 octane (or a 19mm plate for E85). We can use force induction systems but the order of the assembly must be throttle body, restrictor, turbo, engine. Then we may not use any form of oxidizer to the fuel... so no NOS.

Other than that... the sky is the limit.

[sandfreestyle]

But what about a secondary fuel source?

I would make one that would inject alcohol/methanal only when the turbo spolled up to a certain speed or boost pressure. The engine will still run on 93 but the secondary source would only come on in the "staights".

[MoeMag]

But what about a secondary fuel source?

I would make one that would inject alcohol/methanal only when the turbo spolled up to a certain speed or boost pressure. The engine will still run on 93 but the secondary source would only come on in the "staights".

For your reading pleasure...

3.5.2 Fuels
The basic fuel available at competitions in the Formula SAE Series is unleaded
gasoline with an octane rating of 93 (R+M)/2 (approximately 98 RON). Other fuels
may be available at the discretion of the organizing body.
Unless otherwise announced by the individual organizing body, the fuel at
competitions in the Formula SAE Series will be provided by the organizer.
During all performance events the cars must be operated with the fuels provided by
the organizer at the competition.
Nothing may be added to the provided fuels. This prohibition includes nitrous oxide
or any other oxidizing agent.
Teams are advised that the fuel supplied in the United States is subject to various
federal and state regulations and may contain up to ten percent (10%) ethanol. The
exact chemical composition and physical characteristics of the available fuel may
not be known prior to the competition.
Consult the individual competition websites for fuel types and other information.

the rulebook is online...

http://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/rules/rules.pdf

If anyone has any great ideas... I would sure appreciate it. Might even throw in a AO sticker on the car. and if anyone has anything really awesome... I would add ya to the contributers in the reports. Anyone who has contacts for sponsors would be a great help as well. cause these cars generally cost over 50k... and a few of the german teams are valued at nearly a half million. like this one...

That car has CUSTOM made pirelli tires.

[MoeMag]

From the sounds of things, you can have as many turbos/superchargers as you want as long as you design it. So take a lesson in early diesel tech and have a turbo pumping into a superchager. Oreven better, a turbo into turbo into supercharger. As long as your internal components are capable of the heat and pressure, you will be fine. A highly built stock cbr600rr engine can get about 500 HP with no power adders. Add the T/T/S combo and you may push the 1000 HP mark.

As for the transmission, think about a duel gear (H/L) before it gets to the axle. So when your going slower the low gear will give you added torque to power out of corners and the high will give you the speed for the straights. combine that with the 6 speed trans thats in the streebike engine already and that should be a good combo.

Wow... a TTS... thats intense. and probably beyond our means. but I will check it out.

as for the high low... Thats something I will bring to the table. Im worried about power loss with the added linkages tho.

I just had about a 2 hour crash course in small engine racing with my uncle. haha I was suprised to find out his midget sprint cars ran 600cc engines so he is right there with what we are after.

(oh hey NPPL is on FSN right now)

[sandfreestyle]

as for the high low... Thats something I will bring to the table. Im worried about power loss with the added linkages tho.

If it was activated via an air actuator, it would be simple. no clutch, linkage, lever. just an air source, actuator, and buttons.

send me an AIM message if you want more ideas. I have tons

[skife]

2 turbos into a super charger is going to restrict flow.


superchargers usually don't pump more than 11bls of boost or so, where the right turbo can put out 35lbs or more.


if you've got the option for E-85, use it.

but yeah, don't listen to the guy talking about a turbo into a superchager.

Hell, maybe just skip a forced induction motor all together, build a RACE motor for this, it doesn't have to be streetable, take the head in and get it ported, a set of racing cams, independant throttle bodies.


I don't think your issue is going to lack of power, i think its going to be getting the power to the ground.

[sandfreestyle]

2 turbos into a super charger is going to restrict flow.


superchargers usually don't pump more than 11bls of boost or so, where the right turbo can put out 35lbs or more.


if you've got the option for E-85, use it.

but yeah, don't listen to the guy talking about a turbo into a superchager.

Hell, maybe just skip a forced induction motor all together, build a RACE motor for this, it doesn't have to be streetable, take the head in and get it ported, a set of racing cams, independant throttle bodies.


I don't think your issue is going to lack of power, i think its going to be getting the power to the ground.

I can't help but wounder if you have experiance in high HP motors or even racing competatively. Yes the port/polish head with cams, ingnition, independent throttle bodies, pistons, rods, crank, etc. are all good, but it will still not be able to compete with the forced injected motors out there that have the same stuff done.

Ok, the TTS combo may have been over kill, but the TS combo is still being used today. Look at the most powerful streetable Hayabusa in the country, something like 1400 HP with a turbo pumping into a supercharger. Diesel trucks still use them to this day aswell and look at the numbers they can get.

The reason why going with the streetbike engine is because it makes a huge amount of power to wieght and it has an attached transmission. All of its power comes from up on the RPM and that's where they will be sitting at almost the entire time.