2nd amemdment

[grEnAlEins]

That's the thing all you ever hear is " we have the right to this etc etc etc. when you do you ever hear anyone talking about the responsibility that goes with it.

As implied above, I see this a debate over what the source of that responsibility should be. I say an individual should do it intrinsically, and you seem to think that there needs to be a set of regulations, but have not given an objective standard for such. I agree to disagree with you here, and I do see what you are getting at. Believe it or not I agree with you other than on the part about allowing government to define and dictate responsibility.

The reason that most gun owners only speak about rights is because most of us (the vast majority of 100+ million of us the US) are perfectly responsible and see responsibility as a DUH thing. You do not hear about responsible gun ownership and storage because it is not exciting, bloody, or sexy enough to make it into the media. I personally see a knee jerk reaction to regulate all based on a statistically insignificant occurrence to be concerning, but that is just my take on things.

EDIT: Hilltop, stop beating me to posting!!

The fact that people get scared about this a whole other issue. Remind me, are you from my neck of the woods (NE-IL, SE-WI)? I wanna say that you are, but cannot remember... anyways, I have a book you might enjoy reading on the subject, so if you are gonna go to our winter break PB thing that we are planning let me know and I can hopefully remember to bring it for you.

EDIT part duex: I was wrong. You are from well outside of my neck of the woods disregard

[Hilltop Customs]

PA, whats the book...might be able to find an e-copy

[grEnAlEins]

PA, whats the book...might be able to find an e-copy

Sneaky haxor devil

In The Criminal Justice System: Politics and Policies (Cole, Gertz, and Bunger) and Thinking About Crime: Sense and Sensibility in American Penal Culture (Tonry) there several sections related to politics, policies, moral panics/mass fear, and discretion. Most of the books are related but there are specific sections that are especially relevant. I also have some PDF files of journal articles that tie in if you are interested. Just a warning for you, what is learned cannot be unlearned and you may develop an extremely unfavorable outlook with regard to your fellow man and the political environment surrounding issues of fear and panic, media portrayal, and the integration of theories of discretion across our system It is a depressing read, but is informative.

Basically these books are about justice policy and the formation thereof. The idea of irrational fears of a statistically insignificant occurrence is a dominant theme and how easily it is to incite fear and panic among people and the implications on policies. It is half a CJ thing and half a Poli-Sci thing, so it is not all that exciting to read Most of the directly related portions are related to serial killers, serial rapists, kidnappers, sex offenders, and the "generation of super-criminals" (us), the war on drugs, and some other issues and the relationship they have to fear, panic, media coverage, more fear and panic, and finally policy.

Also, come to think of it, if you have not read Mien Kampf, do it. There are several passages about how the lack of rationality and tendency to allow fear or panic to overwhelm reason is omnipresent in society and is highly exploitable.

[Hilltop Customs]

I'll do a little searching for them.....from your description it sounds almost like something I'd write lol.

[PyRo]

I made no leap if the gun was able to be accessed by the 8 year old kid , it was not properly secured period to assume otherwise is naive at best and foolish at worst.

To base your beliefs on assumptions truly is foolish.

[Coralis]

Sigh.... yeah ok whatever your right you should leave your firearms out where ever you feel like and then complain about the government taking away your rights when your kids harms himself or others

[Hilltop Customs]

I think what people are saying is an 8 year old will find a key and unlock a gun cabinet with no trouble. It makes NO difference if there is a law saying that guns have to be under lock and key, what matters is teaching the kids responsibility around guns.

The only way to teach them is to take them to a range and let them fire a gun. I believe any kid growing up in a home with a gun should have this experience at a very young age, as it will make them much safer than a lock, because a lock only needs a key to be completely useless.

Whether or not the gun was locked up or not doesnt matter, the kid still took it and did what he did.....if he was taught about guns, he might not have.

If you want to take it even further, who taught the kid the idea of doing something like that with a gun?

[grEnAlEins]

what matters is teaching the kids responsibility around guns.

Ding ding ding. Winner!!

I would go further and say at that a responsible adult must teach the responsibility and respect for firearms, but that might be asking too much and would require a great many responsible adults

I would tend to argue that proper education and instruction are part of the responsibility. It is too bad the CMP is for all intents and purposes dead, because that was a great start.

EDIT: also, it is dang near impossible to narrow down to one "teacher"... There are so many possible factors, especially since we have no information as to the details of his background or life.

[DanMan]

I think the argument Obama gives is that the 2nd amendment only protects hunting and sportsmen and that "assault weapons" aka scary black rifles and such are meant to belong in the battle field only.

Which is an outright lie.

the whole idea of the 2nd amendment was so the citizen could fight aganst the govt if it came to that. Therefore everything the army has should be fair game for us.

[BigEvil]

I joined ar15.com over the weekend. Once i can find out what kind of socialist regulations I need to adhere to in NYC.. I will be owning one of those there black rifles.

[maxama10]

I wholeheartedly agree!

and great!

[Coralis]

the whole idea of the 2nd amendment was so the citizen could fight aganst the govt if it came to that. Therefore everything the army has should be fair game for us.

So you wouldnt mind living next to me if I could lay hands on a nuclear warhead ??

[Hilltop Customs]

I knew it was coming.

A single person is not responsible enough to handle such a destructive device. That also goes for much less powerful explosives also.

Where does the line get drawn...different sides have different views.

[grEnAlEins]

I joined ar15.com over the weekend.

I joined today!!

[grEnAlEins]

So you wouldnt mind living next to me if I could lay hands on a nuclear warhead ??

Holy quantum leap Batman!!

This example of material fallacy is brought you buy...

Because some things just do not make sense.