crossing the USA/CANADA border heads up!

[Lohman446]

As I recall, there is a house somewhere out west where the border line passes through the living room... Wonder if they'll have to move it

Nah, just put in armed guards

[teufelhunden]

Nah, just put in armed guards

It will require a passport to stumble drunk from your couch to desperately piss your brains out in the bathroom across the border

[LK-13]

thank you Frizzle Fry,
this is the most insightful post so far.
that sad part that most seem to miss is the simple fact that people in general are applauding the loss of their freedom.
and the loss of that freedom will have little effect on the "criminal activity"
it is supposed to be eliminating.
it's sad all around that we the law abiding imprison ourselves in comfortable cages
(our homes)
while thugs, crooks, Gang Bangers, and other dead beats roam free.
does that not seem a little backward to you?

I've got to say, I think there are other more effective ways to secure a border than this. The US has always had great relations with Canada, and as a guy who both used to live in northern Maine, and makes frequent trips over the border at Niagra Falls / Toronto, I've seen firsthand that both Canada and the US already take security very seriously.

That said, as a college student (...not for much longer, though ) in the northeastern US, I've encountered personally what must amount to at least 100 people who have actively engaged in transporting ecstasy and marijuana over the US/Canada border in volume with the intent of selling it... I'm not "in to" either of those things, but if as a non-user I've met that many people, it must be an issue at least to some degree. From loading bales of pot on to the backs of snowmobiles, to packaging ecstasy in baggies and stowing it in false tires and jars of peanutbutter, or even to filling cases of "soda" with beer as a minor (under 21, US), I've heard and witnessed an enormous abuse on the parts of both US citizens and Canadian citizens of the relatively lax border security. Does that mean the upcoming passport policy is warranted? Not necessarily. Will it help those issues? Probably not. All that said, it can't be denied that drugs come in to the US from Canada, possibly due to the traditionally (relatively) lax policies concerning marijuana and alcohol.

Border lockdown? Probably a stupid idea, because statistically you're right; the Florida coastline and Mexican border account for a majority of the drugs and guns that are entering/leaving the US illegally. Those borders will more than likely NEVER be closed due to the alleged (I say alleged in the most literal sense, not trying to start a fight) racism / classism behind the choice to lock them down.

Again, I'm not throwing my support either way on the racism / classism issue, just stating that those allegations have been a major reason for the border staying relatively open (regardless of there being any truth behind them). Those issues never seem to arise when it comes to Canada, due to the relatively common perception in the US that Canada is comprised solely of a white middle class (I believe the most recent survey showed 2.5% of Canadians identify as "black", under 1% "latin american", and 11% "asian american" though most ethnic diversity has been shown in Toronto). Quite frankly, many US citizens won't have a problem shutting down a border that is utilized primarily by a white middle class.

Anyway, as a guy who loves going to Canada once every few months (and having a more than 3 beers before passing out, thank you very much) this is going to suck... I haven't kept my passport updated and it is a bit of a pain (especially post 9/11) to get it re-issued. On the other hand, if in some sort of trickle-down way this helps tighten even slightly the southern boarders of the US, or even the flow of "harder" drugs (i.e. not Mary Jane) into the US, that might be a good thing.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents as both a US voter and a student of sociology.

[SCpoloRicker]

it's sad all around that we the law abiding imprison ourselves in comfortable cages
(our homes)
while thugs, crooks, Gang Bangers, and other dead beats roam free.
does that not seem a little backward to you?

Well, I'm "imprisoned" in my office at work, but that pays for my homes.

In all seriousness, this woe is prompted by the requirement to have a passport to cross a national border?

[LK-13]

this woe is prompted by the requirement to have a passport to cross a national border?

this Woe has been prompted by the slow erosion of the freedoms of North Americans over the last 35+ years;
combined with the willingness to let the government do as it pleases even if the action is actually punishing those to proclaims to protect.

Ben Franklin said something to the effect of a person that trades Liberty for security deserves and shall receive neither.

True Evil is censorship.
True Evil is removing rights because "we know what is best for you".
True Evil is resting in comfort and failing to notice the walls being built around you.
True Evil is to ignore the passage from the US Constitution that was quoted earlier,
Despotism seldom appears as a Hammer to an Anvil,
The Comfort of a Home transformed into a Prison is True Evil.
It happens imperceptibly over time.
"Then one day you stop to find;
10 years have got behind you.
No One told you when to run,
You missed the Starting Gun."
Pink Floyd.

[chafnerjr]

In all seriousness, this woe is prompted by the requirement to have a passport to cross a national border?

Yep...

But I am still trying to see what freedoms are being eroded here... I see a small hassle but no loss of freedom. Can someone please explain what the difference is (in terms of personal freedom) between having to show a passport vs. having to show multiple forms of identification that are all different from state to state? I mean given just the time it takes to figure out what you need if you don't cross regularly, wouldn't you feel better just knowing that your passport is the ONLY thing you need? Yes I know it's extra hassle for those in boarder towns.

This really just sounds like an efficiency thing. Since we DO NOT want a national ID system here (in order to preserve the powers of the states) isn't having a passport the only reasonable option? How will this slow things down on the border? If anything it should speed up crossing time as there won't be nearly as many questions about the validity of the various documents that are required.

Am I not making any sense here?

It was Ben Franklin who quoted "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Which I truly believe... I'm just not seeing it applied here unless someone can point it out. I also re-read my constitution and declaration of independence twice back to front to make sure that I wasn't missing anything.

P.S> I love these discussion on AO. to all involved. Thanks for starting this LK-13!!! Oh, and yes, I had to jump into the unpopular side of this discussion even though you have my whole marker I believe that these debates are essential for maintaining the freedoms that we all enjoy.

[Lohman446]

Well, I'm "imprisoned" in my office at work, but that pays for my homes.

In all seriousness, this woe is prompted by the requirement to have a passport to cross a national border?

All this woe is nothing more than internet chatter. If people truly felt the way the come off on the internet the military would need to be called in.

Of course if the internet were serious, many thirteen year old kids would drive their super sports car to my house to kick my butt too...

[SCpoloRicker]

Of course if the internet were serious,