Socialism One and All!

[wico90]

who has even studied political science (in college) here?

[teufelhunden]

who has even studied political science (in college) here?

Why, are you looking for people who should be excluded from this discussion?

[Frizzle Fry]

who has even studied political science (in college) here?

I have, but not to any great extent as it was only loosely related to my major.

[wico90]

Why, are you looking for people who should be excluded from this discussion?

no people to include....ever heard about groupthink

[CatoRockwell]

College does not determine whether a man is educated, nor is it a good measurement. Any man can be well educated through private study. But yes i have. I am a history major minoring in political science.

[SCpoloRicker]

Oh great, undergraduates...

/off the lawn!

[drg]

Hmm... where do I begin?
1. The right to keep and bear arms
2. The right to the fruit of my labor (thats a pretty all encompassing one, do I need to go into detail?)
3. Right to privacy
4. My right not to be taxed without representation

Theres a few.

I know that we've had our rights violated more than anything through taxes. I'm just wondering what's going to be the final straw before American's wake up.

None of these things changed between Obama and Bush. Can you link to the protests you were lodging against Bush?

I am forwarding this.

*SNIP A WHOLE LOT OF BS*

SEND THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN TAXPAYER YOU KNOW

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/refugees.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/social-security-for-immigrants-and-refugees/

Honestly, it takes like a minute to check whether any email you get is true. From what I've seen, if an email says "pass this on," then there's a nearly 100% chance it's mostly or completely false.

[chafnerjr]

Frivolous arguments aside. Why is it that you think this is OK or constitutional? I'm just not seeing your point (except to point out inaccuracies which is fine).

[sjrtk]

who has even studied political science (in college) here?

I'm sorry i may not have a formal Political Science education.

But,

1) this Bill is in fact unconstitutional via the 10th amendment as stated earlier.

2) The Patriot Act is also unconstitutional as an invasion of privacy and completely violation 99.9% of the first amendment.

:Edit: Patriot Act also violates the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments. Probably the 9th as well but that one is kind of vague.

3) My 2nd amendment rights are to guarantee I can protect my self, home, and family from criminals, and tyrants be them at home or abroad. Remember or Founding Fathers revolted against there king, with only the support of approx. 1/3 of the citizenry and armed with hunting rifles and raided govt. armories.

If it takes military weaponry for me to defend myself from a threat be it a ciminal or a hostile govt. then thats what i will own.

[drg]

Frivolous arguments aside. Why is it that you think this is OK or constitutional? I'm just not seeing your point (except to point out inaccuracies which is fine).

Basically because the government is allowed to tax you to pay for government programs. That is what this law does.

Ironically the lack of the public option is what even makes it able to be thought of as questionable.

[chafnerjr]

Basically because the government is allowed to tax you to pay for government programs. That is what this law does.

Ironically the lack of the public option is what even makes it able to be thought of as questionable.

No...

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Read carefully. They can tax you in a uniform manner in order to provide for our debts, defense and general welfare. THEY DO NOT have the right to use taxation as a penalty or punishment! Not only are you are being taxed to pay for healthcare (like I said we already were). Your being taxed IF YOU DONT get it. That is a states or people right as stated in the 10th amendment period!

[Coralis]

An interesting read http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100327/...hlYWx0aGlucw-- and this too http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6335430.shtml

[Silverback]

who has even studied political science (in college) here?

That would be me, but it was an elective to my Biology Major... so does that mean you'll listen to me when I tell you that these LYING, TREASONOUS BASTARDS ARE LINING THEIR POCKETS WHILE THEY SELL THIS COUNTRY DOWN THE RIVER.

IF THIS "HEALTHCARE PLAN" IS SO DAMN GOOD, WHY IS EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS, THE PRESIDENT, AND HIS CABINET ALL EXEMPT FROM HAVING TO ENROLL IN IT!!!!

[teufelhunden]

The interesting part about the "taxation" issue here is that its a tax on a non-transaction. Don't believe that has any precedence here. All of our taxes (truly taxes, not fees) are transaction based - income tax (the transaction is you exchanging your labor for money, giving someone else control of your money in exchange for interest, etc), sales tax (you buy something, a tax is paid on the sale), etc. There's no history (or authorization, frankly), for any of us to be taxed for not doing something. There have been fees and penalties (a parking ticket for not putting money in the meter, a fine for not getting a building permit, etc)... but those fees and penalties all have a judicial recourse. Not so with a tax, per se. Our income tax system (through which this "tax" will be administered) is based on voluntary compliance (not in the "I'm volunteering to pay" manner, but voluntary insofar as I figure and remit the tax, not someone telling me what I owe), meaning it will be up to the taxpayer to put on their return that they owe the additional tax. A government agency, not a court, will be the first level of enforcement on this. Before any shot at tax court, one generally has to wind their way through the levels of hell with the IRS.

[chafnerjr]

That would be me, but it was an elective to my Biology Major... so does that mean you'll listen to me when I tell you that these LYING, TREASONOUS BASTARDS ARE LINING THEIR POCKETS WHILE THEY SELL THIS COUNTRY DOWN THE RIVER.

IF THIS "HEALTHCARE PLAN" IS SO DAMN GOOD, WHY IS EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS, THE PRESIDENT, AND HIS CABINET ALL EXEMPT FROM HAVING TO ENROLL IN IT!!!!

Actually most of the house and senate members and staff will have to buy from the "exchange". Only the whitehouse and certain members of the presidents cabinet are exempted... Which is causing much strife amongst the regular congressional aid's. Saying pretty mucht he same thing "wait... if this is so good why don't YOU have to get it". Senate democrats actually managed to avoid even voting on a provision that would have forced the President and all his favorites into the new system. This way they can't be pointed out as voting against it in the upcoming mid-term elections.

Once again, I agree but just wanted to clarify.

Now to make matters worse the dem's are actually stating their move towards socialism in this bill, Sen Baucus is quoted in foxnews as stating :

"Too often, much of late, the last couple three years, the mal-distribution of income in American is gone up way too much, the wealthy are getting way, way too wealthy and the middle income class is left behind," he said. "Wages have not kept up with increased income of the highest income in America. This legislation will have the effect of addressing that mal-distribution of income in America."

November seems an awful long way's away.