Kablammo!

[athomas]

Changing the terms to civil union is a good way to go about it. That way, religion is out of it. Marriage is a religious thing. States/provinces/countries have just adopted it because the majority of people in power were religious. That is changing, and specific religions have less of an impact on daily life. The law has to be more generic so that all religions can coexist, but basic human rights can be protected, even if it doesn't represent the majority. Gay marriage doesn't need to be performed by any religion that does not support it. Thats fine. Religions have their rules. However, civil unions need to be accepted because governments should legislate protection for everyone and allow their freedom to choose.

Marriage and gay rights are very similar to the debates about slavery. Just because the majority of society accepted slavery and blacks did not have any rights because the majority of voters where white, didn't make it right. Gay marriage is the same. Many don't agree with it, but we don't need to. We do need to accept it though.


As for sexual harassment and the right to kick someone in the nuts for being propositioned. Think about it from an equal rights perspective. If you proposition a woman, then she has a right to do the same. That would just be bad for all us guys, giving women the right to inflict harm on guys just for asking.

[Warwitch]

Its always religion that throws a monkey wrench into the machinery isnt it? I would think that, as a civilization, we would be past the need for it. But I guess people still need to be told "it will be OK."

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying all religious people are bad. Or even religions themselves for that matter. What sucks are the atrocities commited in their names. And the wars fought over their differences.. Which, ironicly are much fewer than their similarities.

Man certainly is more intelligent than wise.

[athomas]

Religions in their pure form are fundamental beliefs that people can use to give them strength in a time of need. Unfortunately, there are people that use religion to belittle others with different beliefs. Many powerful people in many different governments have used religion to control the masses. Even people that did not believe in the government at the time would support the church/religion. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. This continues today. It is usually a few radical participants that cause the problem, but everyone associated gets painted with the same brush.

[going_home]

JAMES 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

[teufelhunden]

This is something I never really understood about "conservatives" - one of the core beliefs of conservatism is that the government should be small and out of people's lives. But the same "conservatives" are ready to go to war to speed up the gov't to tell people who they may and may not marry.

This stupid thing also cuts against fiscal conservatism, because fyi, it costs money to have the votes and then the 450 legal challenges.

Then again, I think a lot of "conservatives" really just want everybody to live how they want them to live, a lot like the left. Just a different type of living.

Sucks to actually be conservative and be surrounded (and lumped in) with these goons.

[cockerpunk]

This is something I never really understood about "conservatives" - one of the core beliefs of conservatism is that the government should be small and out of people's lives. But the same "conservatives" are ready to go to war to speed up the gov't to tell people who they may and may not marry.

This stupid thing also cuts against fiscal conservatism, because fyi, it costs money to have the votes and then the 450 legal challenges.

Then again, I think a lot of "conservatives" really just want everybody to live how they want them to live, a lot like the left. Just a different type of living.

Sucks to actually be conservative and be surrounded (and lumped in) with these goons.

this is becuase the conservative party has been hijacked by the evangelical chruch, and evagelical faith is fundamentally opposed to true conservative ideals. they are gonna mandate there religion on you, and do it under the cloak of "small gervernment" which as you pointed out, is simply nonsensical. they are also trying to re-write history to make america a christian nation, which it was not and never has been.

they are also against freedom of religion, and all about the federal government stepping in and taking away people of other faiths right to build a privatly funded building on private property.

they are all about government taking away other poeples rights, but government should stay out of there lives!

[ProblemKinder]

Its always religion that throws a monkey wrench into the machinery isnt it? I would think that, as a civilization, we would be past the need for it. But I guess people still need to be told "it will be OK."

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying all religious people are bad. Or even religions themselves for that matter. What sucks are the atrocities commited in their names. And the wars fought over their differences.. Which, ironicly are much fewer than their similarities.

Man certainly is more intelligent than wise.

considering marriage existed among religion long before the government adopted it as some kind of legal civil union, it appears as if the government threw the monkey wrench in this one.

[ProblemKinder]

This is something I never really understood about "conservatives" - one of the core beliefs of conservatism is that the government should be small and out of people's lives. But the same "conservatives" are ready to go to war to speed up the gov't to tell people who they may and may not marry.

This stupid thing also cuts against fiscal conservatism, because fyi, it costs money to have the votes and then the 450 legal challenges.

Then again, I think a lot of "conservatives" really just want everybody to live how they want them to live, a lot like the left. Just a different type of living.

Sucks to actually be conservative and be surrounded (and lumped in) with these goons.

I think you're thinking in extremes. The Conservatives don't beleave in 0% government involvement, just as the liberals don't believe in 100% government involvement. Of course the conservatives are going to have certain things they want the governement involved in. Just like the liberals probably have a coule things they don't want the governement involved in.

this is why I refuse to call myself a conservative/liberal/republican/democrat. I can't commit myself to one broad set of ideals. I'm a consiberal republicrat