Fraud: my recent experience

[ninja monkey]

ok, so i had my rims up on craigs list and a guy emailed me about buying them. we made the deal and i got a check in the mail for $2560. Now i only sold the rims for $450 and thought it was weird the extra money. so i asked him and he told me that i need to send it to the shippers as he is on a business trip and couldnt do so. So i wait for the check to clear in my bank account, 48 hrs and it was fully released. So the guy said i could have an extra $50 for helping out and $60 for packaging. So that left me with $2000. The wire transfer to his so called shipper was $160 and that left $1840 going to the supposed shipper. So after i had the money sent and gave him the number, i never heard back as i still had to box the rims. Well, i wake up this morning to see that the check bounced and they drained my checking account and my savings account and i still owe the banks $2+++. The bank wont help me or do any thing for me and they still expect me to pay them that money. I tried to call western union and the money was already picked up. So i filed a report with them, the police department, UPS, and others. I also called the people thats name was on the check and where the envelope was addressed from(2 different places both in NY) and both said it was fraud. One lady said her UPS account was jacked and many others were sent out. These people are getting to damn good at stealing like this.... i checked the check for markings for security and it had the little florescent hairs in it and looked legit..... now i am stuck in a whole and have no cash and no job to earn cash.... WHY CANT SOME PEOPLE JUST MAKE A LIVING THE HONEST WAY.....

[Frizzle Fry]

When someone seems to be paying $1800 in shipping for a $450 set of rims, you return the check and do some research to see why they would do such a thing - either you've got a very valuable set of rims and you should sell them for more (in which case, you should keep them) or you're being scammed (in which case, you should keep them).

[teufelhunden]

Dude, own fault. It isn't possible for Craigslist to make the warnings any larger about not dealing with Western Union, only dealing locally, etc. Also, didn't your "wtf is this" sense kick in?

[vf-xx]

Report it to the FBI.

I had a similar experience, but I never cashed the check. It's a reasonbly well known scam by this point.

ANYBODY sending you wayy more money than agreed is up to something.

[ninja monkey]

When someone seems to be paying $1800 in shipping for a $450 set of rims, you return the check and do some research to see why they would do such a thing - either you've got a very valuable set of rims and you should sell them for more (in which case, you should keep them) or you're being scammed (in which case, you should keep them).

when the guy tells you the extra is for picking up other items in my area.... i guess i assumed it was ok. Also, i did have a wtf sensor, thats why i checked the check for the security markings, which it had. also, why the hell would my bank release funds for the full amount, they should have noticed the check was fraud after looking at. and for your craigs list reply, my dad was the one that put it on the internet, he just told me some one was interested in my rims. Its not like i was a dumb *** about the whole things.... i tried to do every thing i thought of at the moment. i thought that since all the funds were released, the check was clear. Thats why i didnt think it was fraud at first.

[Ruler_Mark]

when the guy tells you the extra is for picking up other items in my area.... i guess i assumed it was ok. Also, i did have a wtf sensor, thats why i checked the check for the security markings, which it had. also, why the hell would my bank release funds for the full amount, they should have noticed the check was fraud after looking at. and for your craigs list reply, my dad was the one that put it on the internet, he just told me some one was interested in my rims. Its not like i was a dumb *** about the whole things.... i tried to do every thing i thought of at the moment. i thought that since all the funds were released, the check was clear. Thats why i didnt think it was fraud at first.

its a good fake check then, then when it hit someones bank account they reported it and started getting their money back.

[Justus]

You need to wait more than 48 hours for a check to clear. 7 days is much better. On that issue, just require certified funds (to be cleared by the bank) or cash for a deal like that.

Lesson learned the hard way.

[Smoothice]

Well you learned that lesson the hard way. You'll never make that mistake again. At least you still have the rims to sell...

I got boned through western union once.

[factoid]

So if I understand it this scam works as such:


You get a check for 2500 bucks. You cash it.

It seems to clear a couple days later

You are then asked to wire about 2000 dollars to another party, leaving you with a little bonus money for your trouble.

You wire the money out.

The wire transaction clears very quickly.

The bank notices the check is a fraud and pulls the 2500 out of your account, except you've already sent a huge chunk of it on a wire transfer that already cleared.



The fraud basically works because the wire transfer going out clears almost instantly but the check clearing takes much longer.


This is why it's generally standard practice to require a check to sit for 10 days before considering it truly cleared, or deal in insured forms of transactions like credit cards, cashiers checks, money orders or electronic fund transfers.

Honestly I don't know why banks still allow checks. Almost nobody takes them because they're such a breeding ground for fraud.

[cyberave68]

This is why i only take credit cards!!! Even through Paypal!!! You can fight a CC payment but if its a check the first thing most banks do is CASH before actually looking into the check. Then when they have a free moment they will say oh crap we messed up and now you owe us the difference... I'd hound the back for THERE clerical error and cashing a bogus check then trying to pull the funds back. If nobody pushes back at the bank they will just keep doing it this way. Now i'm old but not that old. I remember when you couldnt get your monet from a chack for 7 days cause the bank would actually take the time to see if the funds were actually there or not. Ahh the good old days of not trusting anybody...

[ninja monkey]

So if I understand it this scam works as such:


You get a check for 2500 bucks. You cash it.

It seems to clear a couple days later

You are then asked to wire about 2000 dollars to another party, leaving you with a little bonus money for your trouble.

You wire the money out.

The wire transaction clears very quickly.

The bank notices the check is a fraud and pulls the 2500 out of your account, except you've already sent a huge chunk of it on a wire transfer that already cleared.



The fraud basically works because the wire transfer going out clears almost instantly but the check clearing takes much longer.


This is why it's generally standard practice to require a check to sit for 10 days before considering it truly cleared, or deal in insured forms of transactions like credit cards, cashiers checks, money orders or electronic fund transfers.

Honestly I don't know why banks still allow checks. Almost nobody takes them because they're such a breeding ground for fraud.

yeah, it was 2560, 560 for me(450 for rims)and the 1840 was sent and 160 for the fee. I just talked to the bank and my account is on freeze, they also took the liberty to put enough money in my account to take out there fees for over drafting and tacked the rest of it on to my total owed bill. They also said that the bank will just write it off and put me on a list. this list would mean that i wouldnt be able to get a checking account from any bank in the US. So what am i left to do, they said if i pay it, my account will be released and i wont go on the list. Also, The guy at CHASE BANK, that i talked to, said that CHASE assumes that i am in on it or that i had some thing to do with it. I have all the proof and emails and receipts and police case number, they wont even give it a look. I HATE CHASE BANK.... i have been there for 5 years with no problems or over drafts and still, they do nothing... I asked him why the check had full release of funds after 48 hrs? Even if i did deposit it in an atm, doesnt somebody at chase handle the machines and have to sort through the checks to put them in the correct spot? And why cant they identify a fake CHASE BANK check... They said this kind of fraud happens a lot and if thats the case, why would they let a check cash for that amount with out some one in the bank thinking, lets wait. i mean, come on, you work at CHASE BANK..... And yes, that is my bad, i thought that when there was a full release of funds that meant the check was cleared. So needless to say, my parents are going to loan me the money to bring me back to 0.00......

[Justus]

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. First, it is not your depositing bank's fault you got scammed. Many banks have a 24 or 48 hour "funds availability" policy as a convenience to customers who need access to check payments quickly. It is ALWAYS the customer's responsibility to make sure that the check is good.

Now, it is the drawing bank's responsibility to make sure the check isn't fraudulent before honoring it. If it turns out to be fraudulent after they honor it (take it out of the payor's account, aka "clears"), then the drawing bank takes the hit.

In this case your depositing bank made the funds available before the drawing bank had time to clear the check. It doesn't matter that they're the same bank. It's also not the bank's fault you wired the $2k. So the bank didn't screw you, you screwed yourself by not knowing the difference between "funds availability" and a "cleared check".

I'm not trying to be mean about this, just clarifying that it's not your bank's fault.

[Butros]

ONLY deal with locals for CraigsList............PERIOD

[ninja monkey]

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. First, it is not your depositing bank's fault you got scammed. Many banks have a 24 or 48 hour "funds availability" policy as a convenience to customers who need access to check payments quickly. It is ALWAYS the customer's responsibility to make sure that the check is good.

Now, it is the drawing bank's responsibility to make sure the check isn't fraudulent before honoring it. If it turns out to be fraudulent after they honor it (take it out of the payor's account, aka "clears"), then the drawing bank takes the hit.

In this case your depositing bank made the funds available before the drawing bank had time to clear the check. It doesn't matter that they're the same bank. It's also not the bank's fault you wired the $2k. So the bank didn't screw you, you screwed yourself by not knowing the difference between "funds availability" and a "cleared check".

I'm not trying to be mean about this, just clarifying that it's not your bank's fault.

Yeah but the bank doesn't have to hit me with fees or say I have some thing to do with it.

[SeeK]

Federal Reserve rules:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/regcc.htm

Examples:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/examples.htm

There are other rules you should be familiar with:

Credit card
Debit card (Less secure for you)
Cashier's check
Money order
Prepaid debit card

In almost all cases, the newer the product, the more advantage to the bank (or issuer) and the more risk is placed on the user.

You can thank deregulation of financial products because the banks wanted things to move faster.