Unrealistic movies that make you mad-Army see what you think

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  • talls
    Member
    • Aug 2001
    • 266

    #1

    Unrealistic movies that make you mad-Army see what you think

    Well I just got back from seeing We Were Soldiers and while it was a good movie they had some discrepancies that are common in war movies. Most war movies, with the exception of Saving Private Ryan and probably a couple more, have many things that are so unrealistic it makes my head spin.

    For one, the worst mistake I have ever seen in a war movie happens in almost all just in order to dramatize it. In normal combat situations where typical weapons are used (M16's, etc.) it pisses me off when I see a guy not being able to hit an enemy that is about 50-100 yards away. I have been around M16's and have fired many before, and I have got to say if you can see it by god you can hit it(if your target is within range). They are calibrated at 300 yards for a reason, and that is close quarters combat is very rare because noone within that range should be able to move without being killed(unless under extreme cover like night, heavy smoke, air support, etc.) However, in movies it seems so fake that a trained soldier armed with an assault rifle couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel. Hollywood tries to say that they are doing it for the people that were there, but if that were the case wouldn't they at least show what it was like!?! Another thing is that tactics in movies are a joke. How many times have you been like "What are you doing" when some idiot decides to try and do some Rambo style move that in a real world situation wouldn't have a chance in heck to succeed.

    Well I am done ranting and I would list many examples of these different things, but I wouldn't want to ruin the movie for anybody. Oh and as recently stated in another thread about people walking out during the list of names, those people are the most inconciderate, ungrateful, shameful people that live in America. That is what makes some of the peoples standpoints so skewed on the military, because they don't look at who gave their lives for our country but instead on the things they might have done differently. Sorry about the rant but I just got a little worked up and want to know what everyone thinks about this.
    Famous SEAL quotes:
    "Give us your mind, and we will take care of your body"

    "We aren't superman, he does things the hard way. Why leap tall buildings in a single bound, when you can blow it up and walk over the rubble"

    "Pain is just weakness leaving the body"

    "It is not my job to judge our enemies, that is God's job, it is my job to arrange the meeting"

    "I will treat you all the same, JUST LIKE CRAP!"
  • AutoMaggot
    ...
    • Dec 2001
    • 851

    #2
    Probably the worst offenders are all of those 1980s "Lets feel good to be American" war movies (you know the ones... Top Gun, Iron Eagle, Delta Force, Rambo)... I was watching the deck-launching scene in Top Gun the other day, noticing the A-6E Intruders flying off the deck... I can imagine the director or the technical advisor hoping nobody would notice that they werent the Tomcats flown by Maverick and Iceman... its pretty lame... Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down, Apocalypse Now, and Gettysburg I think are the most realistic... another one brought to mind is Patton... using American M48 Walker Bulldogs as Panzer Mk IVs... sheesh... Oh, and another one in Top Gun... they were passing off F-5E Tiger IIs as "MiG 28s" - even though there has never even been a MiG 28...
    Last edited by AutoMaggot; 03-03-2002, 04:44 PM.

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    • Arman/XPM

      #3
      Sam!
      I did not know you where into the hardware aspect of the Military. So am I -
      -Arman

      Comment

      • Thordic
        AFTICA
        • May 2001
        • 5986

        #4
        AutoMaggot - I know that in Patton at least, they had a good excuse. German tanks simply didn't exist to use in the movie. They HAD to substitute tanks. All the german tanks were either destroyed, scrapped, or sent to museums. Back when that movie was made, digitally recreating the german tanks wasn't exactly feasible.

        A lot of times that is what happens in other movies as well. The movie has to make due with whatever hardware is available to the movie industry.

        Comment

        • Russ
          Senior Membrane
          • Jul 2001
          • 1935

          #5
          I've never been in any combat, or the military for that matter, but I do a lot of steel plate shooting and bowling pin shooting. 30 feet away (10yds) from a bowling pin, and I've seen guys empty out 2 magazines from their handgun without hitting a single pin (or plate). When the "pressure" is on, it can be difficult to hit your target. I can't even imagine the stress of combat...

          That being said, I hate all the BS in Hollywood war movies, but, then again, it's just a movie

          Comment

          • Army
            Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

            • Oct 2000
            • 5785

            #6
            Combat provides such physical and mental overloads, that shooting straight is extremely difficult. To miss at such short ranges is not unusual. It was estimated that it took 110,000 rounds of small arms ammunition for one enemy killed, during the 14 years we were in Vietnam.

            To there credit, moviemakers have a limited area in which to work, they don't have unlimited equipment to use or destroy, nor do they have vast armies to lay waste to. The real military helps out many times (such as in We Were Soldiers, most of the soldiers are real Guardsmen or Reservists), but it must be in a narrow confine of regulations which limits what can be done. To make up for these inadequancies, the Director will use many things and people in the same scene, but seen at a new angle to fool you into thinking that there is much more than there really is!

            Do you recall the fire base scene, showing the many howitzers firing in support of the US troops? Well, there were really only 3 guns, and 2 of those broke during shooting. Did you recognize me firing the guns? (They made me cover my tattoo!) With permission from the Army and Ft. Hunter-Liggett, we fired real HE rounds so as not have the big puff of white smoke that you see in many movies. Modern cannon do not make a lot of smoke. The explosions with no bodies in the scene? Those were the actual impacts of the rounds we fired.

            This movie actually went out of their way to get it right and realistic. After all, when the actual commander that led those troops was there at the filming, you better make him look good or else!

            Apocolypse Now was a complete farce, one of the great comedies of all time. They had it wrong from the opening credits. Platoon was a bad joke, Born On The 4th Of July was a kick in the teeth of any Marine. I love John Wayne, but the Green Berets was too immature and too late to turn any minds back to patriotism. Saving Private Ryan was a good beginning in getting it right, but it was laced with "wrong-ness" too. Patton was filmed in cooperation with the Israeli Army, that is why the M48's and Walkers instead of Panzers. Remember, there weren't too many, if any at all, Panzers in operable condition in 1972!

            Yes, I agree that the "Rambo" genre was sad to have to put up with all these years, but it beat the heck out of The Breakfast Club!!

            Comment

            • talls
              Member
              • Aug 2001
              • 266

              #7
              Originally posted by Russ
              I've never been in any combat, or the military for that matter, but I do a lot of steel plate shooting and bowling pin shooting. 30 feet away (10yds) from a bowling pin, and I've seen guys empty out 2 magazines from their handgun without hitting a single pin (or plate). When the "pressure" is on, it can be difficult to hit your target. I can't even imagine the stress of combat...

              That being said, I hate all the BS in Hollywood war movies, but, then again, it's just a movie
              The pressure is a good point; however, these people are trained to deal with this pressure and while it may be hard to comprehend but you can get used to such things. *edit* Just read Army's post and the statistics about how much it took to kill one soldier. I find that quite amazing and it will make me ponder my viewpoint on this subject. Maybe I need to read a little bit more on Vietnam as I am not as informed on that subject as WWI and II. I understood that it took massive amounts of firepower, but that just suprises me. Oh and on a side note about tactics in the movie. When they hit the LZ instead of straight up fighting like they did for a little bit aren't you supposed to get to some shelter depending on the area around you. My dad was an army ranger with the 7th so I should be able to talk to him but he is on a business trip. Should be an interesting conversation. Thanks for all the input from everyone and I would love to hear anymore opinions on the subject.

              Oh yeah about the bowling pin thing that is very interesting, but I just have one question. The pressure you are talking about is that during a competition or what...just curious.
              Last edited by talls; 03-03-2002, 08:18 PM.
              Famous SEAL quotes:
              "Give us your mind, and we will take care of your body"

              "We aren't superman, he does things the hard way. Why leap tall buildings in a single bound, when you can blow it up and walk over the rubble"

              "Pain is just weakness leaving the body"

              "It is not my job to judge our enemies, that is God's job, it is my job to arrange the meeting"

              "I will treat you all the same, JUST LIKE CRAP!"

              Comment

              • Russ
                Senior Membrane
                • Jul 2001
                • 1935

                #8
                About the "pressures" of competitive shooting,

                The pressure is trying to shoot down all your targets before your opponent does the same. We shoot "Man vs. Man", so you must shoot better/faster than your opponent to win. IDPA and IPSC are timed events, you against the clock. It's a lot of fun. It's quite invigorating, actually, a rush. I get the same thing from paintball.

                Handgun speed shooting (pins, steel, IDPA, IPSC, etc.) is a tough sport to do well. You really don't know 'till you try it. I see a lot of pretty good "shots" fall apart when the buzzer sounds.

                Russ

                Comment

                • Army
                  Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

                  • Oct 2000
                  • 5785

                  #9
                  Just to clarify tactics. These guys were Cavalry, they don't go some place to set up a battle, they go in guns blazing.

                  They recieved a report of NVA massing in that zone, and when spotter aircraft confirmed the NVA were in the open and vulnerable, the slicks were in the air armed for bear. That the reports erred in the number of bad guys became obvious when the Battalion became embroiled in a firefight they were not, at first, able to contain. When supply birds began to deliver beans, bullets, and band-aids, the tide of the battle changed.

                  I can confirm PPC competition is stressful. When you are trying to beat the clock AND score high on the targets, your aim gets a little.......no, a lot more shaky!

                  Comment

                  • talls
                    Member
                    • Aug 2001
                    • 266

                    #10
                    When supply birds began to deliver beans, bullets, and band-aids, the tide of the battle changed.
                    That is a great way to put it
                    Famous SEAL quotes:
                    "Give us your mind, and we will take care of your body"

                    "We aren't superman, he does things the hard way. Why leap tall buildings in a single bound, when you can blow it up and walk over the rubble"

                    "Pain is just weakness leaving the body"

                    "It is not my job to judge our enemies, that is God's job, it is my job to arrange the meeting"

                    "I will treat you all the same, JUST LIKE CRAP!"

                    Comment

                    • Thor the Mighty

                      #11
                      its really hard to have a realistic war movie. for one thing, the good guy has to win, second, there is so much liberal bull that its not even funny, and third, if you hire a star actor, he's going to have to be the person that can shoot a squirl's right nut from 4 miles away with a western style draw. its really hard. saving ryan's privates is the best war movie ever its the most realistic one ive ever seen
                      Last edited by Army; 03-04-2002, 07:53 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Miscue
                        Super Moderator

                        • Oct 2000
                        • 7105

                        #12
                        Hot Shots really made me angry... so unrealistic. Come on, you can't cook stuff on people's stomachs... geez.

                        Comment

                        • Mantis
                          Team Anger Monkeys!
                          • Feb 2001
                          • 206

                          #13
                          Oh crap!

                          You caught me totally off guard, Miscue!!!!

                          Almost laughed until I cried

                          Comment

                          • Navy Seal
                            I wanna Angel! :)
                            • Feb 2002
                            • 143

                            #14
                            Originally posted by AutoMaggot
                            Probably the worst offenders are all of those 1980s "Lets feel good to be American" war movies (you know the ones... Top Gun, Iron Eagle, Delta Force, Rambo)... I was watching the deck-launching scene in Top Gun the other day, noticing the A-6E Intruders flying off the deck... I can imagine the director or the technical advisor hoping nobody would notice that they werent the Tomcats flown by Maverick and Iceman... its pretty lame... Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down, Apocalypse Now, and Gettysburg I think are the most realistic... another one brought to mind is Patton... using American M48 Walker Bulldogs as Panzer Mk IVs... sheesh... Oh, and another one in Top Gun... they were passing off F-5E Tiger IIs as "MiG 28s" - even though there has never even been a MiG 28...
                            MiGs are in odd numbers, like MiG 15, MiG 29. etc...
                            :cool: :D AO member 4 life :cool: :D

                            Comment

                            • Navy Seal
                              I wanna Angel! :)
                              • Feb 2002
                              • 143

                              #15
                              Black Hawk Down

                              The skinnies were on a building, a Ranger was on the wrong side of the Hummer looking around, seeing the beautiful sky complete with tracers flying over his head and shooting at them from like 20 yrds and missing by a mile!!! And a commander walking in the "death zone" to shake hands with the surviving rangers wile getting shou at (and) missed, He had "balls" to do that (if that little part ever did take place). Well, all in all the movie was cool, feel sad for the gunner. And if i ever got shot at by 2 gunners, i would DEFINATELY be pissed! lol.
                              :cool: :D AO member 4 life :cool: :D

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