Anyone Here Drive A Fast Car?!?

[Automag Ranger]

the way i see it, is you build a car to the rulebook. and then you go race. all of my cars are heavily modified (with the exception of the miata), but they are built to, or being built to a rulebook. because then you settle it on the track.

anything else is wealth worship to me, not skills improvement. making a fast car is no secret, nothing terribly complicated about it, you just need money. when im riding the bumper of a 800 hp ZR1 every lap at the track, or raw timing a GT3 in autocross, and im not even a top tier driver locally, i mean, i have a tough time with why in the world those builds matter. i don't really get what the point is.

when it comes to cars, the two Ts are the most important ... talent and tires.


but then my collecting paintball guns for the sake of them has ended too. now im really just more interested in playing paintball, not gun whoring. i guess i'd just rather DO rather than OWN. same thing with cars, i'd rather race them and improve my skills as a driver, than with no restrictions, build a car.

You're only looking at cars in the context of what you do. I don't do what you do, nor do I have any desire to because I get enjoyment doing what I do.

For instance, I could say your car isn't fast because you will never trap close to 140 mph in the quarter. You could say my car isn't built right because I don't pull 1.2g's on a corner. It's apples to oranges.

I love the Atom for more than its ability to go around cones. I don't need advice on what cars I should get as I've been building and racing the kind I like for years. I know I'm sacrificing top end speed and cornering ability by building a 4400 lb car. Could I build another car to make it faster for a lot cheaper? I sure could. But then I lose everything else I love from my current car.

You sound like a dad telling his kid what he can and can't like lol. Thanks, but I'll keep doing my thing.

[cockerpunk]

Im not stopping you or criticzing you. You expressed that you wanted to have fun autocrossing, so i was merely suggesting good/cheap ways to do that. an atom is not the way to do it.

[cockerpunk]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:

its a drag race start into an autocross course.

[Automag Ranger]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:

I have done pro-solo several times. It's a lot of fun, but I'd rather spend money to make my car faster in a straight line than a constant supply of tires.

[nak81783]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 AWD Sport with the appearance package (no tire on the back, among other things).

Oh, and I did see XMT's car when a buddy and I went there to buy an E-Mag. So the car exists, and after seeing his machine shop, I'm sure he's got lots of homegrown goodies in it.

[cockerpunk]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 Sport.

im an engineer. no kids <- the real secret
i also basically do all my own work on my cars <- the only affordable way to own porsches or racecars of any type, even then .... eeek. ive spent easily double the purchase price of my 944 just keeping it running/nice

but frankly, most SCCA solo and pro-solo competitors are middle class, married, with kids. most HPDE drivers are too, though that is UNDOUBTEDLY more expensive.

i mean you can get into a nationally competitive E street miata or spyder for, 6 grand, with an annual tire budget of another thousand. a day autocrossing is 30-50 bucks, and at least locally here, you can do it every weekend all summer. thats probably the cheapest way to get into autocross in a serious way. if you don't want/need to be competitive, and just want a fun day out with your car, assuming its street legal and safe, you can just show up and run almost any kind of car.

[Automag Ranger]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

[blackdeath1k]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

[nak81783]

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

Ever forget the vacuum?

[Automag Ranger]

Ever forget the vacuum?

Constantly.

I do bad things on the behalf of good people.

That's my real job.

[cockerpunk]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

[nak81783]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

[blackdeath1k]

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

[cockerpunk]

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

oh dont worry, i plan to join them. spyder is undergoing a full SSM class build right now, in a year or two she'll be sporting 350rwhp, 1950lbs .... my main competition this year in class was a 430rwhp mk2 mr2 turbo codriven by an SS class national trophy winner, and his friend, who is a local STR class winner. im tired of bringing a knife to a Vulcan cannon fight, even if i can win sometimes.

my point is you gotta learn somewhere. lots of folks don't bother showing up because they don't think they have a "good" car for it, and so when they finally have what they think is a good car (which often isn't), it has far too much power, and not enough grip, and they have not learned on less powerful, and less grippy cars, how to drive, so they promptly put it in a wall and are done with motorsports.

like the kid who buys a brand new ego, talks **** on messageboards all day, and then gets smoked the second he shows up to actually play paintball.

one of our clubs most promising drivers learned to autocross in a 5 speed Camry. ****ty car, but he learned how to carry speed through corners better than most because of its flaws. a girl in our club used to run a hyundai sedan, before she bought a mk1 mr2. it doesn't matter what car you have, you can always learn to be a better driver. and that, unlike upgrading your car, always stays with you.

[cockerpunk]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

i want to buy an old XJ for ice fun. you can find them in manual still.

dat AMC straight 6 ...