Anyone Here Drive A Fast Car?!?

[cockerpunk]

This just proves what you know about racing. If you put a fast car that isn't necessarily quick in a quick car sport, it will likely get beaten. Just because you beat a fast car in your specific event, does not mean your car is fast.

Since I have to spell it out for you, a fast car is determined by its trap speed. Unless you're trapping over 130 mph, which none of your cars do, then I would not consider it fast.

are GT3s and GTRs not track cars? are purpose build SSM modded mr2s and C6s not good autocross cars? what about lotus? not really good for either ... humm, maybe i see your point. lol

unless you are doing what you constantly accuse me of doing ... determining what is "fast" and "slow" by a very specific metric ....

[boo]

are GT3s and GTRs not track cars? are purpose build SSM modded mr2s and C6s not good autocross cars? what about lotus? not really good for either ... humm, maybe i see your point. lol

unless you are doing what you constantly accuse me of doing ... determining what is "fast" and "slow" by a very specific metric ....

If your talking beating them on a short autocross type course it's not all that impressive. GT3's and GTR's are set up for road racing, not autocross courses. Most cars that corner well at high speeds will suck at cornering at slow speeds and slaloming. Again, different strokes for different folks. We get it, HPDE is your thing, its not the end all be all to enjoying a car.

Also, race car drivers get in public road accidents all the time. HPDE "masters" are even worse because they have less skills then a professional with even more to prove. Whatever advantage of vehicle dynamics learned through HPDE events is quickly eaten up by a false sense of being able to drive faster around unpredictable corners on public roads. One pothole, slow moving car, gravel, or ice and they're in a ditch. I'm not preaching that all of us here drive like saints, I'm just arguing against any evidence that it will keep you out of accidents. I'm sure you'll argue there was a time when you saved yourself from wiping out, but I'm guessing it was a situation that overconfidence put you in, not adverse road conditions or other drivers. I would say open road truckers are probably more skilled drivers on public roads then an HPDE fanboy, simply because they log more miles on public roads.

There is something to be said about learning accident avoidance, and yes, there are specific HPDE's that relate to only that subject. I would say that would help, and any HPDE where you learn your vehicle dynamics at its limit would help, but it's diminishing returns and definitely not the end all be all for public road safety.

Back on the subject, all we're saying is slow cars are not fast just because they do good at one specific area of motorsports. visa vis fast cars are not slow because the driver isn't as experienced in one type of motorsport or the car is not set up or built to excel in that motorsport. You're basically making the claim that because you are really skilled at one niche area of motorsports your slow cars are fast. That's like just because you can shoot a mechanical cocker really fast it's a better gun then an Ego for speedball. Sure, you might be able to beat a noob with a mechanical cocker on a speedball court even if they have an Ego, but if you go against a pro you're going to be outgunned.

[Nobody]

What Gordo is trying to say is this. If you take 2 equal cars, whether they are 100hp put-put mobiles or 1000hp tuned monsters, the skill of the driver is what can extract the most out of either car, in any situation. The unskilled driver won't be able to understand how to go into a corner properly or be late on the breaking, or keeping up speed in the corner; as well as keeping the tires from breaking loose, using proper throttle control and know where and when to punch it.

If you look at history, look at the mid 60s sports car battles between the Mini Cooper & the Ford Falcons. Big horsepower versus quick light cars. That was a battle between 2 different dogmas of motorsports. It was said, you could pick the winner of the race(at least brand of car) by the distance of the last turn to the finish line. With that, here is the translation into paintball.

Each discipline of paintball, whether pump(even going into stock class, modified SC or unlimited pump), mech or electros: each gun used requires a certain set of skills. You can take a world class speedballer, put him in the woods with a SC pump and he will generally get his butt handed to him, likewise a pump player using an electro won't be as good(though the ttransition is much easier, IMO) on the air field. Yet it is understanding that each class has a certain set of skills to be deemed good at, that you would keed to work at to maintain the highest levels of play within each class, pumping and shooting with your off hand, for example. It is ultimately the skill of the player who can understand the 1st AND translate that knowledge to the field, who should be the victor in 90% of the situations.

But that is only if those players wish to challenge themselves for those skill levels. As paintball is a loose confederation of recreational players that all.play for different reasons, there is no one or multiple licenses(like in motorsports) which the player needs to achieve before earning a place in that class. That in itself, is the biggest obstacle to paintball; the lack of consolidated structures for even competitive or semi-competitive rankings. You can play every weekend at your field and the only challenge would be the gun you're using, the amount of paint you wish to shoot and the apparent skill level of your group at the field. That of course is a different topic all together.

So back to topic, in a road course, where all aspects of a car are put to the test, a less powerful car, but one that can be run to the limit should always beat the car that is up and down on the throttle, hence Gordo's mantra of "slow cars are faster". I do understand what and why Gordo is saying that, but there is no 1 car, no one type, no one race that best exemplifies that.

So it all boils down to what you like, and how you like to drive it. If you have a 800hp monster that you like to do 20mph on the downtown strip. Go for it. If you can actually get to a track day and turn that puppy inside out, great for you. But you are not going to sell ice racing to the people in Cali or FLA. Simple as that.

[Automag Ranger]

What Gordo is trying to say is this. If you take 2 equal cars, whether they are 100hp put-put mobiles or 1000hp tuned monsters, the skill of the driver is what can extract the most out of either car, in any situation. The unskilled driver won't be able to understand how to go into a corner properly or be late on the breaking, or keeping up speed in the corner; as well as keeping the tires from breaking loose, using proper throttle control and know where and when to punch it.

If you look at history, look at the mid 60s sports car battles between the Mini Cooper & the Ford Falcons. Big horsepower versus quick light cars. That was a battle between 2 different dogmas of motorsports. It was said, you could pick the winner of the race(at least brand of car) by the distance of the last turn to the finish line. With that, here is the translation into paintball.

Each discipline of paintball, whether pump(even going into stock class, modified SC or unlimited pump), mech or electros: each gun used requires a certain set of skills. You can take a world class speedballer, put him in the woods with a SC pump and he will generally get his butt handed to him, likewise a pump player using an electro won't be as good(though the ttransition is much easier, IMO) on the air field. Yet it is understanding that each class has a certain set of skills to be deemed good at, that you would keed to work at to maintain the highest levels of play within each class, pumping and shooting with your off hand, for example. It is ultimately the skill of the player who can understand the 1st AND translate that knowledge to the field, who should be the victor in 90% of the situations.

But that is only if those players wish to challenge themselves for those skill levels. As paintball is a loose confederation of recreational players that all.play for different reasons, there is no one or multiple licenses(like in motorsports) which the player needs to achieve before earning a place in that class. That in itself, is the biggest obstacle to paintball; the lack of consolidated structures for even competitive or semi-competitive rankings. You can play every weekend at your field and the only challenge would be the gun you're using, the amount of paint you wish to shoot and the apparent skill level of your group at the field. That of course is a different topic all together.

So back to topic, in a road course, where all aspects of a car are put to the test, a less powerful car, but one that can be run to the limit should always beat the car that is up and down on the throttle, hence Gordo's mantra of "slow cars are faster". I do understand what and why Gordo is saying that, but there is no 1 car, no one type, no one race that best exemplifies that.

So it all boils down to what you like, and how you like to drive it. If you have a 800hp monster that you like to do 20mph on the downtown strip. Go for it. If you can actually get to a track day and turn that puppy inside out, great for you. But you are not going to sell ice racing to the people in Cali or FLA. Simple as that.

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

[psunitro]

Seriously. Fast is freakin relative. Its a open forum, and it open to the public to discuss the topic. If someone comes in and posts up stuff that you don't like, move on, dont read it.
I happen to like most motorsports. Cars tuned to the max within a rulebook to pull out tenths of a second for a win.

When I say you cant use 90% of the 800 HP, do I REALLY have to spell it out?

[Automag Ranger]

Seriously. Fast is freakin relative. Its a open forum, and it open to the public to discuss the topic. If someone comes in and posts up stuff that you don't like, move on, dont read it.
I happen to like most motorsports. Cars tuned to the max within a rulebook to pull out tenths of a second for a win.

When I say you cant use 90% of the 800 HP, do I REALLY have to spell it out?

The topic is about fast cars, not HPDE. It's not that I dislike the topic; it's that the posts are off topic. Fast cars. Not quick car events. Apparently I have to spell that out for you.

[cockerpunk]

If your talking beating them on a short autocross type course it's not all that impressive. GT3's and GTR's are set up for road racing, not autocross courses. Most cars that corner well at high speeds will suck at cornering at slow speeds and slaloming. Again, different strokes for different folks. We get it, HPDE is your thing, its not the end all be all to enjoying a car.

Also, race car drivers get in public road accidents all the time. HPDE "masters" are even worse because they have less skills then a professional with even more to prove. Whatever advantage of vehicle dynamics learned through HPDE events is quickly eaten up by a false sense of being able to drive faster around unpredictable corners on public roads. One pothole, slow moving car, gravel, or ice and they're in a ditch. I'm not preaching that all of us here drive like saints, I'm just arguing against any evidence that it will keep you out of accidents. I'm sure you'll argue there was a time when you saved yourself from wiping out, but I'm guessing it was a situation that overconfidence put you in, not adverse road conditions or other drivers. I would say open road truckers are probably more skilled drivers on public roads then an HPDE fanboy, simply because they log more miles on public roads.

There is something to be said about learning accident avoidance, and yes, there are specific HPDE's that relate to only that subject. I would say that would help, and any HPDE where you learn your vehicle dynamics at its limit would help, but it's diminishing returns and definitely not the end all be all for public road safety.

Back on the subject, all we're saying is slow cars are not fast just because they do good at one specific area of motorsports. visa vis fast cars are not slow because the driver isn't as experienced in one type of motorsport or the car is not set up or built to excel in that motorsport. You're basically making the claim that because you are really skilled at one niche area of motorsports your slow cars are fast. That's like just because you can shoot a mechanical cocker really fast it's a better gun then an Ego for speedball. Sure, you might be able to beat a noob with a mechanical cocker on a speedball court even if they have an Ego, but if you go against a pro you're going to be outgunned.

i've beaten them on road courses too.

that is why you do not push cars to the limit on the street. thank you for proving my point why anyone who only drives on the street cannot push there car to the limits. and they simply do not have that level of experience.

and yes, you are simply doing what you have accused me of over and over again, using a very specific metric to determine in a car is fast or not. thats the great thing about road racing, and really, any kind of racing in general .... the time sheets are in black and white. no need for magazine racing, no need for internet forum bragging rights ... the time sheets say who is fast and who isn't. "fast" isn't a horsepower number, or a power to weight, or even a drag strip time .... fast is beating the other guy.

[Nobody]

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

I do not have a fast car. So i have no picture to post. It does not mean i don't have an opinion on the subject. I have worked on fast car that friends have used. I have done a drive line swap in my 97 F150 to go from a 4.2 V6 auto to a 4.6 V8 stick. Most of my wrenching goes to 4wd trucks and jeeps, which are not built for speed, more for power.

Yet do not triffle with me. I am being nice here. I can easily turn my ire towards you. I do prefer usable horsepower.

[Automag Ranger]

I do not have a fast car. So i have no picture to post. It does not mean i don't have an opinion on the subject. I have worked on fast car that friends have used. I have done a drive line swap in my 97 F150 to go from a 4.2 V6 auto to a 4.6 V8 stick. Most of my wrenching goes to 4wd trucks and jeeps, which are not built for speed, more for power.

Yet do not triffle with me. I am being nice here. I can easily turn my ire towards you. I do prefer usable horsepower.

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

[cockerpunk]

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

lol, if you followed any other threads on these boards, you'd know that nobody and i almost never, in fact i think this might actually be the first time we've ever agreed on anything before.

also, what if he was my boyfriend? what if i was gay? lol, pathetic.

im not gods gift to man behind the wheel, im a mid pack driver in a good car. that is why is continuously post BETTER drivers than myself, because that is what i aspire to be. the guy in that ice s2000 video, is amazing, and might actually be god's gift to man behind the wheel, he regularly, in a stock power, koni coilovers, s2000, sets fastest time of the day, on ice, over 400+ hp evos and STIs. sure, i can knock off the poor drivers in AWD cars in my RWD on ice, he regularly beats the best in AWD, with his RWD, on ice.

that is talent, and it far surpasses my own. no **** hes a national title winning driver.

there is an E-street driver locally, also runs a spyder, and last year, would regularly beat me in my highly modified car. an E street car is basically a stock car, very little allowable modifications, but the guy is just that good. proud to say i've improved because neither of us modified our cars much this year, and i got better enough to not let him beat me anymore, but again, its obvious he is clearly the better driver, and a guy i want to learn from. im quicker than him now, but mostly because i've got the faster car, normalized for our cars, he's still kicking my butt.

there is always someone faster. and that isn't a sad thing, it means there is more to learn.

[cockerpunk]

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

again, i'd think someone who has been there and done that, would understand the difference between playing around on the street, and actually racing. just like the difference between playing army, bolting a million things on there ARs, and actually going and killing bad people.

why is this such a confusing/offensive topic to so many car folks? it really is quite simple. and i would think being a ranger, and a paintball player, you'd understand the exact concept we are talking about.


also, on long straight back-roads, unless you are top ending your car, its your courage (both from safety, and from a legal standpoint), not the limits of the car, that are holding you back. you can do 135 mph in a 250 hp GTI, you don't need 500+ hp to drive that fast. and this of course assumes you are a big enough moron to do 100+ on public streets regularly, which, i hope if only for our nations sake, you arn't dumb enough to do.

[Automag Ranger]

also, what if he was my boyfriend? what if i was gay? lol, pathetic.

You're right. I took that one a little far. Just seemed like a good buddy of yours.

There is always someone faster. and that isn't a sad thing, it means there is more to learn.

True and unfortunately the reason I keep putting money into my cars.

[cockerpunk]

True and unfortunately the reason I keep putting money into my cars.

see, i used to think like that. just buy/mod a faster car right?

thats the "well if i just upgrade from my axe to an geo, then i can play div 3 right?" thought process. nope, it doesn't work like that. your 500+ hp car isn't holding you back. just like the axe isn't holding that 3rd time out paintball player back.

there is always someone faster, that means there is more to LEARN.


just to throw another grenade into this thread, for street use, i actually prefer as low grip, and low limits of a car as possible. because a car becomes fun when you get to the limits of grip, and even bolting on a decent set of summer tires on a stock miata means you are having to do double the speed limit in order to feel anything at all from the car. for street use, im all about low performance cars, allows you to actually drive them to there limit on the street without going to jail, or killing yourself.

now racing? i want everything under me that i can afford and/or the limits of the rules. because it matters when the seconds are ticking away. everything matters then, so it better be the best you can muster.

but out on the back-roads for ****s and giggles? gimmie a stock miata on snow tires with 3 inches of snow please! or in the summer time, i'll take the same car, with some nice, Chinese off brand all season hard as rock tires please. don't even care what suspension or power mods, doesn't matter. a nice small, light, RWD car, with low grip? nothing more fun in the world than that.

[cockerpunk]

totally new driver, slow car, with good instruction, ON ALL SEASON TIRES ... smoking STIs and M cars ...

skill > stats

[Nobody]

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

Threats do not endear you to anything that what you proclaim to be against, internet tough guys. Like i said, i am trying to be nice here. And if you are a ranger, run 10 miles for me. That is what rangers do, isn't it?

I am trying to take the wind out of gordo's sails here. Playing into it, well only fuels his fire. Dealt with the miscreant more times than i can count. We are no where close to being friends. Never said i don't like fast cars, just that i tended to build trucks and off road vehicles, and don't have one myself. So stand down yourself.