Very Distirbuing News that ticks me off

[synreal]

"A person acts with CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE with respect to a death when:

* that person engages in conduct which creates or contributes to asubstantial and unjustifiable risk that another person's death will occur,

* and when he or she fails to perceive that risk,

* and when that risk is of such nature and degree that failure to perceiveit constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation."

in which case the most appropriate punishment is Criminal Neligent Homicide. Do I think that she has the intent to kill her kids? Of course not, is she responsible for two homicides as defined above? The current, publicly available evidence tends to make me believe so.

sidenote- it turns out that she had a third child that was given up for adoption 2 years ago at the advice of a third party counselor.

[FactsOfLife]

By the line of reasoning I've read on this topic so far, I gather that the woman from Texas who drowned her kids is also innocent. After all, it was her kids fault for not being able to hold their breath long enough right?

Ever had heat stroke? After about 2 hours of roasting alive, yes that's how they died, what do you suppose the mental state of the 4 year old was? And here's a guess, the back doors of the car probably had child safety locks on them, making it impossible to open from the inside.

Even if the kid knew how to open the door, why is it his fault AT ALL for this?

It isn't grey area here, it's black and white. The mother is garbage, and obviously unfit to be a parent. And anyone who says they didn't know that leaving their kids in a closed car in 90 degree weather is one of two things. Mentally retarded or lying. Either way, she has no business being free in public.

I am seriously disturbed by some of the comments on here exonerating this POS for her actions. Making her out to be some kind of victim in this CRIME is ludicris.

my not so humble opinion.

[oldsoldier]

hey, stupidity isnt a crime, negligence is. She can be charged with criminal negligence, or whatever law the state has that is similar to that. Also, she may have had child-proof doors; cant be opened from inside. And a 4 year old doesnt have the presence of mind to try and get attention; the poor child only wanted to breathe.
I am in no way defending this lady, but, I have to agree that actual jail time wont do any good at all. Jail doesnt cure criminals;it encourages. And, she technically isnt a criminal. Granted, she effectively killed two children, but it was out of neglect, not any malicious intent. So, manslaughter? Maybe. More than likely, she will be brought up on some child neglect charges. I am sure she is upset. The one thing they need to look into is a pattern with er. Has the police or CDC been notified before for her? If so, a pattern may develop. Then, maybe, she will receive a stiffer punishment. But, I personally think she will punish herself for the rest of her life. She is already stigmatized; everyone in the area will nkow who she is. It was a stupid (not the word I want to use...but in a PG forum, it works) mistake with tragic results. And, her driving around for 3 hrs w/her kids dead; surprise, this is almost a normal reaction, when death is accidental at the hands of another. She panicked, knew she was guilty, and couldnt take the blame for herself. So, what did she do? Concocted a story. I am sure the interviewer knew from the start it was BS...just waited for her to break. Anyway, I really hope that people sit up and take notice; this occurs every year. You think people would learn...unfortunately, for us, anything over six months is "old news". We forget about this kind of stuff. Next year, it'll happen again, somewhere else. This is what, the third time this year so far? And those are only the ones they show in the news nationally.

[Patron God of Pirates]

By the guidelines Synreal posted, she is guilty of a clearly defined crime. The issue which remains gray (as in open for discussion) is what do you do with this woman now.

Like OS pointed out, we don't know the rest of her background, so speculation is a bit useless.

I'm removing myself from the discussion until we learn more.

Side Note: Andrea Yates should be drowned. Comparing the two crimes is ludicrous.

[mykroft]

It's Crim Neg & manslaughter at a minimum, I'd go 3rd degree murder instead of manslaughter.

Stupid or not, she caused the death of 2 people, who happened to be her responsibility. Lock her up, throw away the key, she has not paid nearly enough for the deaths of 2 children. It's not worthy of the death penalty, but certainly of Life without Parole.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
Side Note: Andrea Yates should be drowned. Comparing the two crimes is ludicrous.

read my post again. I was NOT comparing the crimes. I was making reference to the attitude that somehow because the 4 year old couldn't open the door it was somehow their fault.

specifically this quote:

Jonno06 i take it the 4yr old cant unlock the door??

[Patron God of Pirates]

My fault, you are correct sir.

[FactsOfLife]

thanks. appreciate it.:)

[oldsoldier]

Cant push murder...the one key element in murder is INTENT. She didnt intend to kill her kids. They may start with that, but, if I were her lawyer, I would argue that to nothing. I dont even think a judge would allow that. I dont know the law there, so there may be a fine line between M3 and manslaughter. MA doesnt have M3...M1, M2, and manslaughter..thats it. For a murder conviction, you need to prove intent, no matter what degree you are going for. Again, without her personal history, you cant prove that she intended this.
Prosecuting lawyers, especially in criminal cases, will almost always start with a higher degree of criminal intent, knowing that it will eventually be argued down. This is the only way I see them starting with M3. If they start w/criminal negligence, they cant up the charges to anything other than that. Well, keep us informed...now I aM interested.

[-J�ker-]

ok its obsolutely DISTURBING that people in this nation are this STUPID! i mean its a known fact that the inside of a car gets HOT when its HOT outside and vice versa. the kids should have hone inside with her. it was her neglect and not carinmg that killed these kids. i wish i could watch here sit in a car in 90 degree weather for 4 hrs. but waitt that would be to nice to do for her. she needs to habve the kid shes bearing takin away as soon as it pops out... and needs tolearn how to stop having sex or use a condom.. people like this are going to fill the world with morons.


now the lady who has three kids and doesnt know who the president is and thought the WTC was destroyed by the russians.... thats is so sad that this nation has such idiots.. i would personely like to slap that stupid stupid stupid person and tell them to start school over and maybe she can get her kids back after they get a decent education...

[Wheelman]

I say fry the b*

Being a Corrections Officer I deal stupid people everyday(yeah positive career choice) most of the people that are at my facility will be there for the rest of there natural lives and the rest are "doing life on the instalment plan."

It is downright sickening the things that lawyers get these guys off on. As much as I hate to say it, she'll probably walk. Prison isn't what it used to be and stupidity breeds rampant

[Restola]

I had to jump in on these "stupid isnt a crime" comments.

Definition of 3rd degree murder in Minnisota (first state I could find)

"Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others...without regard for human life"

Like leaving your kids in a car for 3 hours on a hot day with the windows closed.

I think in other states "wreckless disregard for human life" is 2nd degree murder.

Stupid isnt a crime until it effects another life. She should rot in jail. "Send her to school" HA.

[Evil Emperor]

You guys are right, stupidity isnt a crime. But the consiquensis can be! The problem is the punishment. Ok this dingbat kills her kids and so we pay to keep her alive for the next 25 years. If the old jewish law a child was to be stoned to death for being disrespectfull! Im not shure if they still do it today but i think in Japan if you are cought stealing they would cane you. where not talking about just a little tap where talking about you couldnt walk after they got done with you. So if you think about it this lady isnt really getting any punishment that besides the mental pain of the lost of her children (IF she has any). And the Yates thing, she had probs. My mom (she's a nurse) says she had hormone probs. But I still think if they take the life of ppl who take others lives then lots of crime will dissapear.

[Mossman]

This woman should be sentenced to the death penalty. For the love of god, you do not need a highschool/college education to have a sense of MATERNAL INSTINCT. What a useless piece of crap, I am not sad for her, sad for the kids, sad for the family, I am sad about what our world is coming to. People are as a whole, so incompetent, it is astounding. I think that the fact that everyone on this board can take apart a mag and put it back together automatically puts everyone in the top 50th percentile.

I recently have been doing focus groups whenever they ask me too. Its good money and its fun. The most recent one i went to had about 30 men and women ranging from the ages of 16-30. As a 16 year old I would have put 1000 dollars I dont have on the line that I could beat anyone in that room at any mind related competition. I would rather stare at a wall for 3 hours then listen to these people who could barely put together and idea, let alone a sentence.

Good lord, I think we need to start over. At this rate human stupidity is gonna wipe our species out long before we deplete all of our natural resources.

I am not a violent person, but this person is either going to prison and costing taxpayers money, or going back on welfare to cost the taxpayers money, and I would have NO problem making the injecting/flicking the switch/Bludgeoning her to death with a chunk of pipe.

These stories aggravate me even more when I know the justice system is gonna....jesus...why'd u have to post this...grrr....

bastards...poor kids....goddamnit