The nature of war

[Jack_Dubious]

Is the killing of innocents ever justifiable?



JDub

[Thordic]

This one is gonna get closed soon, I can smell it :)

There's no point on this because no one is going to change anyone elses mind. The people who think war sucks will still think war sucks and the people who want to kill everyone will still want to kill everyone, etc.

[Jack_Dubious]

Originally posted by Thordic
This one is gonna get closed soon, I can smell it :)

There's no point on this because no one is going to change anyone elses mind. The people who think war sucks will still think war sucks and the people who want to kill everyone will still want to kill everyone, etc.

I agree...but isnt that true with any thread on the internet? :)

JDub

[Restola]

One example that I think justifies killing of "innocents" was the daytime bombing of war factories in Germany during WW2.

If you mean absolutely innocent in every way, people that have spent the entire war in their own basement never to step outside, buy war bonds, or give a samwich to a soldier or factory worker, then the killing of those people would be wrong.

But at least I'm in before the lock!

[RamboPreacher]

is anyone completely innocent?
is anyone completely guilty?

what is the definition of innocent, for the purposes of this thread?

[Archangel Damien]

there is no such thing as innocent not even the pope is innocent

[Jack_Dubious]

for the sake of argument lets say..
"innocents" = civilians (i.e. non-combatant men, women, children)

IMO I wouldnt consider them civilians if they were killed while working in a factory or directly contributing to a countries "war machine".

JDub

[shartley]

[oldsoldier]

If the killing of thousands releases the repressed millions...or, prevent further attacks on innocent civilians, then, yes, it is justified. Indiscriminate bombing campaigns, and the wanton murder of civilians is NOT war. That is TERRORISM. Civilian causalties, unfortunately, do happen in war, but we make every attempt to minimize it. Hell, we have been dropping leaflets for onths in Iraq, telling the civilians that, in the event we attack, they will be safe outside major cities, and that they will be warned. The US, nor any major nation, makes war on civilians. It is just a simple truth that some of them will die in the crossfire. Unfortunate, but unavoidable.

[Orange Crush]

This is a good topic and one my wife and I have touched on several times. She is very humanist, and I am very American. I believe the lives of the innocents should be spared when possible. However, if I had to choose between the lives of Amercian service men and women and opposing civilians, the choice is still simple for me, my wife on the other hand doesn't share this view. To her soldiers have accepted their possible fate.

The main thing to keep in mind is this: Battles can be waged by the military, but war is waged by an entire country.

A full scale military action cannot succeed without the full support of the nations economy. Civilians make bombs, guns, tanks, fuel, textiles, etc...that fuel the war machine. If you work in those factories, then you too should realize and accept that you are a military target.

[Quiet]

The killing of true innocents is distasteful but it happens. I doubt many would have their conscience allow them to do it intentionally but mistakes do happen on the field. How many times have you been the victim of friendly fire on the paintball field?

[Mango]

"Kill em all, let god sort them out."

[Jack_Dubious]

I posted this topic cause I thought it was also a good topic and AO is one of the few places i visit on the net that I feel would be able to carry a mature conversation. I really enjoy and respect reading everyone elses thoughts and opinions on the subject.

IMO there are times when targeting and killing of innocent civilians can be justified.(Hiroshima) But then there are other times when I think it is an atrocity (Dresden).

Either way tho, justifiable or not....I still realize that these are people, just like you and me, who are slaughtered.

JDub

[shartley]

Originally posted by Jack_Dubious
IMO there are times when targeting and killing of innocent civilians can be justified.(Hiroshima) But then there are other times when I think it is an atrocity (Dresden).

Either way tho, justifiable or not....I still realize that these are people, just like you and me, who are slaughtered.

JDub

[beefstew]

if you think children are innocent jsut look at the kids on this forum:)
or a more serious note, i think that while it is not acceptable and opposing my moral values to target cvillians that have NOTHING to do with the war effort, in war there are accepted losses of local civillian people especially in the type of war most technelogically advanced nations use now adays. The use of nuclear bombs, in my mind, is totally an unforgivable offence, just because of the fact that innocent people WILL die and the damaged areas (both physical and radiation) would have to include civillians and so called "innocents" and that the killing of that number of people could never be justified.
---BEEF---
*sig taken out because of seriousness of topic