ATT: AO Machinists. I Need Your Opinions. (Granite 1324 by Smithy)

[luke]

[steveg]

Luke just to be sure you do know that the g3617 is a
vertical and horizontal spindle. never really seen many of
those in industrial settings.

looking at the lathes If it were me I'd be looking at the
g4000 g9972 or g4002/3 (same head and tailstock longer bed)

I have the equivalent of the g8688 and I find that the chuck
is to small and that the bed is too short

remember that the bed needs to be twice as long as the longest
hole that you need to drill/bore.

Do you have any machinist training? if not maybe you should
look into some courses. having some training and experience on
real industrial machines like bridgeport mills and colchester or similar industrial lathes would
would give you a better chance of knowing you exact needs
and make you a better judge of what you are spending your money on.

[SilverFox]

looks like you are getting some great advice already so that is all that i will say right now except that I just got a 3 axis cnc mill on ebay for $445, Now i am replacing the shot controlers with gecko drives and the original stepper motors are in good working condition. so fo a bit of time and around 1000 I have a full size 3 horse 3 axis cnc mil. plus my old mil only went up to 3/4 collets but I have had MANY 1" tools lying around that i got in bulk lots that i can use on the new machine I am one happy camper. Of course i had to drive to philly area to pick it up. but at the price beggers can't be choosers.

The only thing i was worried about with it was it was listed as a "spindel wizard" which o have never heard of but once i got there I learned that the machine itself was an xlo adatpde to cnc by adding spindel wizard controls. which means decent machine and soon to be decent controls.

the table runs on round ways which is new to me but they are in good shape and very soomth. Has anyone else seen this before?

[luke]

Steveg,
Thanks for the heads up on the g3617. To be honest, no, I haven't ever had any training. I've considered it but there never seems to be anytime. I work full time and always have projects around the house that keep me busy 7 days a week.

When it comes something like this, I always seem to take the LONG road meaning I fly by the seat of my pants and learn it as I go. Eventually I would like to take some classes for cnc design, but that's going to have to come later. I'm jumping into this completely blind, that's why I value your opinion. (Edit: One thing that attracted me to the "Smithey" was the fact that they had training videos and available tech support to get people started in the business.)

Machining is something I've wanted to do for 17 years but never had the opportunity until now. My prior financial situation always prevented me from setting up a shop or even allowing me to go back to school or change careers. It's pretty sad but until last year, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. (I'm 35 years old and I don't know what I want to be when I grow up!)

[luke]

I was comparing the G 3617, G 6760, G4027. The G4027 looks like the best out of the three. One difference that stands out is the tilting head, The 4027 only tilts 45 deg. (in both directions) the other two tilt 90 deg. I'm assuming the 90 deg. head makes it a vertical and horizontal mill right??

[luke]

Where are the Grizzly's made?

EDIT: I assume that the Grizzleys are not cnc compatible?

[steveg]

Silver if you bought a working good condition ex-cell-o
for $445 (got pictures?) you are one lucky person. even
though they are a bridgeport copy they are considered to
be a much superior machine (except for the part were they
have been out of business for about 20 years)
Unless it's not the same machine I'm thinking about.

Luke, in the past most of these machines that I have seen,
again In Canadian stores with Canadian brands
they have been made in Taiwan, but production of a lot of this stuff
is being shifted to China. you would have to ask Grizzly

The tilting head is not necessarily to convert to horizontal,
but to allow drilling,boring and milling at an
angle. on fixed head machines a vice that can be angled
is used. six of one, half-a-dozon of the other.

As well with the head tipped on it's side the work piece
would have to be raised quite high of the table.

Any machine can be converted to cnc there are several
kits and ready built versions of the fixed head bench-tops
for example.

[luke]

In reguard to X, Y, Z, which direction does each letter represent?

[steveg]

Z axis is the axis of the tool for example on a drillpress
the drill up and down movement is the z axis
on a lathe z axis is the movement of the tool, to and from the chuck

X axis on a mill is the table movement side to side when
standing in front of the machine
on a lathe x axis is the tool movement across the face of the chuck

Y axis on a mill is table movement towards and away from the column or front to back.
a basic lathe does not have a Y axis.

[luke]

I'm kind of leaning towards the G4027. But, I'm not completely set on it yet. I'm waiting on a catalog from Grizzly, it will be a little easier to compare features and specifications that way.

I've also been looking at Mills here >>
http://www.use-enco.com/
I buy tools and supplies from them occasionally because they are close (Nevada) to Arizona and I can get my order over night with regular delivery charges. One problem I've seen so far is the larger Mills come with 3 phase power, perhaps they have optional motors, I'm not sure and haven't inquired yet.

[steveg]

The g4027 looks like a slightly scaled version of the
bridgeport series 1 that is a good thing, considering that
much of the world as we know it has spent some time on
one.

If the quality, precision and workmanship are reasonable
you will never be disappointed.

one of the first upgrades to make is to replace the drive belt
with a power twist link belt supposed to make a large
decrease in vibration I've got 5' waiting for my mill
to come out of storage.

[Bailey]

http://www.southbendlathe.com/ Ive been using south bend lathes for three years now. They are very well made machines. I just scanned though the site but it might have something your looking for.

[FESTUS33]

Just had a thought
You might be able to find used equipment
{Lathes & Mill's} in the Machinery and
Equipment listing's in you're local newspaper.

steveg you're right mine is not an actual Bridgeport,
but that's a name that everybody know's what you're
talking about when use it.
Mine's an ENCO with a 3 hp head, I got it for
[get this}
$200.00
I got it from a company that I worked for, when
they were going to sell it for scrap. It would'nt
stay tray trammed into square on the X axis, when
we moved it to it's present location we used some
scotchbrite on the mating surface's of the Head
and Column ,and have never had a problem since.
I've had it for about 13 yr's now, I think I got
a Monster Great Deal on it.
Rick

[luke]

steveg

Just wanted to say thanks for all your help. I have a decent idea on what to shop for now. I have several catalogs coming so I can compare specifications between machines. In the next couple of months I should be ready to purchase a Mill, right now I'm focused on finishing a project I've been on since last Fall. Again, thanks for your help. (and patience )

luke

[J-LYTE]

ok, here's my 2 cent's. I have both the Taig cnc 4 axis mill and the Taig lathe. Both are excellent machines. I puchased my mill in the CNC ready version, bought the 4th axis from microproto, and bought the controller from stepperworld. It saved me a few $100 bux doing it this way. As you can probably guess I too am doing the same thing with paintball parts. I have my own line of products in the works (drops, asa's, reg's, slug bodies, rails, feed necks,etc.). I'm just doing things a little different and am not going to post pic's until these are available for shipment. Custom 1 off's are still easier with the CNC in my opinion but only if you are very proficient with cad modeling software and have a good g-code interpreter. The mill is more than adequate to to small scale paintball work (provided you buy it with 12" of X-axis travel). As far as chatter on taking deep cuts? Carbide mills on aluminum, not to much of a concern. I haven't had any problems with this. I generally turn the mill at around 5000rpm though. The lathe lacks in capacity but compensates with accuracy. The most runout I have come across in any of my repetative parts is .0004". Thats pretty tight in anybody's book. The most informative help I found when I got started was at Nick Carters Taig Page. (sorry, dont have the link handy, do a search for Taig and it will show up.) There are threading attachments made for the Taig lathe but I as yet do not own one. I had the neccessary taps and dies that I needed specially cut and do it by hand in my "homemade threading jig" (made with the lathe and mill of course). The lathe lacks in between the centers distance but this can be compensated for with the purchase of an additional lathe bed ($65) and some machine work to join the two together increasing capacity to around 17". As far as price goes, expect to spend in the 5 to 7k rage to get started. Again, just my .02.