Are we actually learning anything?

[animal]

Originally posted by luke
My biggest High School disappointment is that I didn't learn more math.

Hopefully you're learning more of it now? Not like it's changing or anything. Get thee to a library

[luke]

Yes sir I know what you saying! I'm buying a Mill for my shop, I have no excuses now!

[Marek]

Originally posted by animal
First off, don't take any of this as a flame ok? I played sax for 6 years in school, and it was enjoyable for me, but I took it as an elective, and for no other reason than I enjoyed it. Later on it was on the basis I learned with sax, I picked up a guitar and taught myself to play it.

Anyways, If indeed people are being put in art classes because there's no room in classes they want to take, then frankly, that is just bs. I understand it is a growing problem today. Student:teacher ratios are going way up and the system is in need of help... bad. I agree I should have the right not to take art or theatre, or dance, or any of the other electives like that. BUT, things like math, reading, spelling, english I feel are fundamental and form the basis for learning. Without a basic knowledge of all of them, learning any of the upper subjects becomes very hard if not impossible. Think of trying to explain something like physics to someone who knows nothing about math. It could be done, but not in any depth, and certainly not easily. These basic fundamentals are the ones that should be required. At a high school level, I think things like history, and american government are also valuable to a young adult starting to enter society. There are things you just should know as an american citizen to be part of society. Art, music, computer programming, phy ed, while an ideal person might know a little about all of these, it is certainly not nearly as important as the basics. We're not all on the planet to play trivial pursuit or jeapardy all day.

I don't like the argument that I need to try something to know I don't like it. By all means, if you enjoy something or find it intriguing, having those classes available to you to explore it are definately only a good thing, but requiring someone to take them kindof kills the point. Like in college I was required to take all kinds of "cultural diversity" courses. These included some credits of the fine arts, humanities, and social sciences. I honestly barely remember more than a fact or two from each class, mainly because I took the easiest ones available to fit the requirements, and I tried only as hard as I needed to get the C grade I was striving to attain. It was a total of 18 credits I really didn't need, and it would've got me out of college sooner and saved me some extra cash in the process.

Just don't take me on a wrong note here though. All of those elective type classes are valuable, but not to everyone. I really agree with the recent movement in Florida for eliminating the senior year. They're allowing students to double up english classes and a few others that would be required in the senior year, and they graduate as a junior, in the mean time they don't have much leeway or room in the curriculum for electives, but the main reason for it is to help ease overcrowding. A senior year is welcomed and those students wishing to remain for that year can and are encouraged. This honestly should satisfy both you and i since I don't like required electives, and you say people are put in those classes they don't necessarily want to be in since there's no room elsewhere. This doesn't satsfy me mainly because I know there will be people who might need that extra year to gain some common sense. I am big on common sense, and I think sometimes it can even take you further in life than book sense.

Heh, I wish there was a required common sense class

Not all people that join band or choir are going to major in music, but as long as they appreciate and remember music for the rest of their lives, our job is done.

I agree, I wish the system was different but it is not. It's not enjoyable as a teacher to have a student come in and just hate your subject. They refuse to learn, they haven't tried it, but there is no other place to put them either. That can lead to some discipline problems, which is something added on to what a teacher is already required to do. I believe that a well rounded person from a team of teachers is the idle way of thinking about it. It's not a perfect system, but I know teachers try. It's not like we make millions that we are only in it for the money. Some are, but all are not. That is the case with almost everything, exception to the rule.

I had to take Fine Arts classes also, on top of my basics for my Music degree. I didn't remember much, but I know that I appreciate it more. I guess that is the hope for these people teaching the non-major subject. That they find an appreciation for it. That's what I would want.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Marek
I had to take Fine Arts classes also, on top of my basics for my Music degree. I didn't remember much, but I know that I appreciate it more. I guess that is the hope for these people teaching the non-major subject. That they find an appreciation for it. That's what I would want.

I'm all for appreciation of the arts, so long as the student can tell me were Portugal is on a map and the various other fundamentals.

Without the fundamentals all you've got is an unemployable kid that appreciates impressionistic art.

[Marek]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Without the fundamentals all you've got is an unemployable kid that appreciates impressionistic art.

That's funny, I like that. But true, so true.

[gam-e]

Originally posted by Albinonewt

Without the fundamentals all you've got is an unemployable kid that appreciates impressionistic art.

or Martha Stewart

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


I sincerely doubt you've had none of that indoctrination, you probably just haven't noticed it.

And it's not in itself a bad thing, the bad thing is that it tends to take the place of learning actual stuff (reading, writing, arithmetic, remember those). The school day is very finite and it's important to teach the things will be used later, the actual skills and abilities that will be needed for college and life.

Oh I know they're incorperated, I was under the impression you meant it was overt. If it isn't what's the problem? My school, and all of the surrounding schools teach the core subjects. The only real problem is students, most of them, honestly don't want to learn, thus it slows things down. In reality the problem is stupid people, who should be fed to tiger, lions, and/or bears.

Also, where I am I barely see no fundemental classes outranking the core subjects, especially in highschool. I have Chemistry for an hour and fifty minutes, same with Math / English (On alternating days), fifty minutes of foreign language, fifty minutes of tech (same time is slated for art or gym, and yes, I had to take tech over gym ), and a fifty minute elective.

[AngelBoy]

Math is definately something that almost everyone will use, and I believe everyone needs to have be strong in math.

English is a different story. Yeah, I do think everyone should learn the proper way to speak, write, etc... but I do not agree with all the boring books everyone has to read. Im sure some people enjoy it, and get something out of it, but the truth is that almost everyone finds a way around actually reading it by cheating or just reading summaries of them.

I HATED taking art. It was awful. I appreciate art, I really do, but I hated art class. You shouldnt be given a grade on how well you draw, its just stupid. Especially being able to fail you for that. I guess that depends on the teacher though, ours sucked. It definately shouldnt be a required course.

What do you guys think about Drug Testing through the school? Our program for it right now does random drug testing for people who's parents have signed saying that they dont mind it, but it is required if you play a sport of any kind, are in a club, park at school, go on a field trip, run for any class office, or even go to prom. They come and get you out of lunch and take you to the bathroom where you stand in front of a monitering teacher and pee in a cup. They dont tell you ahead of time, and if you can't pee then you automatically have to go to 8 weeks of drug counciling. I just dont think that its run very well at all, and is overall kinda stupid. Would counciling at school with a teacher who isnt really a counciler anyway actually stop someone who is doing drugs?