Liberal or Conservative?

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Hey, if CB gets to call himself a centrist can I be a Marxist?

You aren't?

But seriously I am a centrist.

[jdev]

<- ironmag, davidb, albinonewt, and kevmaster all rolled into one.

abortion. damn right, killing for convienience/extreme birth control. im vehemently opposed to it.

affirmative action. get rid of it. why should someone of a different ethinic background be given a position that someone else can perfrom better.

death sentence. this is iffy. you get caught smoking gun, see ya later. with the right proof though, its right. you kill someone, you just forefeited your right to live. eye for an eye.

gay/lesbian issues. doesnt concern me. doesnt concern you. is it going to effect your life personally if 2 men or 2 women get married? I dont think so. and if it does, you need to take another look at your life and put it into perspective. leave it alone, it doesnt concern you what others do.

military. if you got it, flaunt it. just make sure you do it in the right time and place.

just a few of my views on things.

[Jack_Dubious]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
It is a barbaric act that even Jesus was against.

Actually what Ive never understood is that according to the Bible, Jesus had very liberal views....yet today many conservatives are Christians. Jesus was killed fighting against the religious conservatives of his time. Go figure.


JDub

[davidb]

What was liberal 2000 years ago is reactionary today.

Collegeboy I'm curious, what are some of your more conservative views? Where do you tend to disagree with the democratic party?

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Fred
Me, I'm worse actually, I'm a Libertarian!

Good lord, not one of them.

you lot are increadibly entertaining to argue with at parties though.

Put me down as Realist. Many of my views are too extreme for centrists and I can annoy conservatives and liberals on the same issue.

[Crazy]

...what if she was raped?

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Crazy
...what if she was raped?

A Liberal would let her have the abortion no matter what
A Conservative wouldn't let her have it no matter what
A Moderate would have a list of condidtions where it would be ok (rape would almost certainly be one of those conditions)

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by davidb
What was liberal 2000 years ago is reactionary today.

Collegeboy I'm curious, what are some of your more conservative views? Where do you tend to disagree with the democratic party?

Look above at my list.

I am also against making guns illegal, even though I disagree that the admendment gives people the right they think they have, I am against the taking away of people's "right" to own a gun.

[Miscue]

I closed this pre-maturely, confusing with another thread. Back open so long as people behave.

[1stdeadeye]

I am a liberal conservative aka moderate.

I am fically conservative.
Socially Moderate.

Pro-Gun

Neither Pro-choice or pro-life. I feel that abortion is wrong. I feel it is reprehensible. I also feel that I do not have the right to force my beliefs upon others. I do not believe I have the right to tell some 13 year old girl in Camden, "Tough! You are having the kid". Abortion on demand is wrong, but there must be some exceptions.

I voted for Bush and will do so again.

Redistribution of wealth is a fancy phrase for socialism!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
I"m conservative, although on the social issues I'm more of a moderate conservative.

I believe in a dead constitution. It is what it is, and I don't want to see it changing due to a new interpretation or what people think. It is what it is. If the supreme court wants it to change they should write their congressman to propose an admendment.

I am a supply side economist. As such I believe in lower taxes and less entitlement and welfare.

I believe in a strong military and in having the will to use it.

I believe in State's Rights and the state's abilities to legislate themselves (as an add on to this I believe abortion should be a state issue).

I do not believe in segregation or descrimination in order to achieve someone's definition of diversity. Demographics in schools and at the work place are what they are for a reason. If you don't like fix the reason (poverty, lack of education, etc), don't just change the resuly artificially.

There are plenty of other reasons and I can give a list about a million miles long (in 10 pt. text no less). But this seems sufficient for your purpose.

Uhm, maybe I just should have said ditto!

[Lohman446]

As far as the federal government is concerned I am a Libertarian - the federal government only has the powers expressly given in the Constitution (and amendments). I don't know how we ever managed to get to where we are today.

However, I am nextly a realist, I accept that a Libertarian government is far away, and as such you will find my views right of center overall.

Abortion: I morally think this is wrong, we have in today's society well qualified families waiting to adopt children. As long as adoption is available I beleive that abortion is wrong unless the pregnancy is life threatening. This is a view of convenience, I do not know how I would feel if adoption was no issue.

Affirmative Action: MIGHT have had a place, it no longer does in today's society. Race should not be an issue in anything. I beleive that affirmative action hurts the self esteem of minorities who make it, even if what they have achieved they have deserved. Basing anything on race like this just causes racial divsions.

Gay issues: The government has no business in this. Gay civil union (call it marriage if you want) outside of the church to establish rights is fine. There is no reason that a church idea (marriage) should define anything in America. Civil union should be the term for marriage anyways, and open to any two people (certain restrictions, age apply).

Capital punishment: In theory I am all for this. However, assuring someone is guilty to the standards that the death penalty requires, and carrying it out, is more expensive then life in prison. So practically it no longer has a use. Please note, prisons today need heavily reformed, so that prison will act to deter those who would commit criminal acts.

Medicare: I beleive that we should spend a lot less $$ overseas, balance our budget, and offer a socialist medical system to everyone. Factually financial laws and healthcare laws in many states already assure treatment, even if it is obvious payment will not be coming. Lets make the system official. BTW - this also requires reform in both insurance and lawsuit laws.

Congressional oversight of ongoing military conflicts: I beleive the military should have an oversight committee that reports to congress on a true need to know basis, very similar to judges, that are hard to influence (A Supreme Court oversight committee type thing) made up of people with proper military experience. Most people in congress do not have the military experience to have an oversight roll. I beleive that congress's role in this stops at the go / no go level.

Welfare: Workfare - I beleive that government could use people who need help, and find a way to make it work. Besides, working gives people self respect, skills, and the ability to work in the private sector. There is a danger if workfare becomes better than working in the private sector.

Taxes: I do not beleive the government SHOULD have the right to tax my income. I beleive they do have the right to tax my spending (I beleive this would encourage saving, investment). I also beleive that they have the OBLIGATION to tariff our borders (of competing products) to ensure that the building of OUR country and OUR jobs continues. I do not beleive that other countries should be allowed to make huge profits when they do not have to deal with labor unions (who I think have gotten WAY too powerful) or our government regulations.

Social Security: Government enforced saving for retirement (or catastrophic issues). Although I beleive the current system should be reformed I do beleive in its existent as beneficial to society as a whole. I realize this goes somewhat against my idea of taxing.

Military: Our military is a joke. We have the most powerful military and still seem too sheepish to use it (until recently). BTW, the UN should be a place of discussion, when it holds its own military, and begins to be a place of rule, than it should be opposed. Ditto that on NATO, it serves no purpose any longer (I may be wrong).

Gun control: The second amendment seems to be the only one not being expanded in the "living document" theory. The second amendment was clearly intended to allow the ownership of military grade weapons. I beleive this should be limitied to the general idea of SMALL ARMS... or such.

I fall fairly close to center - basically neither of the two parties currently have what I really want, and my views are based as much on a moral system as a support for a basis of government.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Redistribution of wealth is a fancy phrase for socialism!

No it is not. Socialism is a state of government in which the state owns all the means of production.

Redistribution of wealth is a system of taxation which tries and evens out the playing field while helping the lower end survive while making a substantial amount under what they should. But you can not pay them what they should be paid for the upper end will then lose money, and then no one will want to be the upper end, etc.....

Redistribution helps the rich more then it does the poor.

[than205]

umm... hoping for the time for god to see us evolve.

[logamus]

thanks for reopening this miscue.


i tend to vote republican, but im not a hard core on all the issues. i am a card carrying teamster and thus find myself torn in many situations. often canidates that identify with my teamster beliefs and the beliefs of working men and women are opposed to the values i hold near and dear to my heart. i try to stay on top of voting issues and canidates and i am active in my local's pac.

firstly, the second amendment. i am a life member of the NRA so you know what, you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands. i think that the major problem with gun control in this country is that there is no willingness to compromise. people that are actively anti-gun dont want to quit until personal ownership is banned. as long as thats the ultimate goal, there will never be any room to compromise. i think the brady law is a good law, underfunded, but good. anti-gun people just see that as a first step. this is followed closely by failing to enforce the current gun laws. i personally dont fear being robbed by a law abiding gun owner, do you? its the guy that gets his gun through illegal channels that poise the problem.

abortion. i personally hate the idea of abortion and i would do anything i could to help a female family member or friend so she could avoid that "option". my wife is the result of a one night stand and instead of her mother aborting she gave her up for adoption. so it means alot to me. however, i dont feel comfortable with the government forcing its will onto adults as it pertains to their own bodies. (see also gays)

death penalty. i dont think its used enough. in its current state it is not a deterrant. in florida the fella that killed the abortion dr never appealed and it still took 7 years to carry out. i think everyone has the right to appeal, but death row should not be a retirement home. and i personally dont have a problem with a violent rapist getting the chair either. we have no use for that kind of person in society. if you knew that the monday after your final appeal was heard you would die i think that might send a stronger message. i also like the idea of building prisons in high crime areas. you might think twice about robbing that car if its parked infront of a prison.

taxes. man do i hate taxes. income taxes need to go away and be replaced with a national sales tax. i dont have the numbers infront of me, but trust me it makes total sense. which is why it will never happen.

military. i am all for pulling our troops out of places that they are not needed. ie germany. countries that are not in any serious danger of being overrun by evildoers are more than capable of defending themselves and im sure we can find better uses of our military than defending germany.

gays. while i really cant understand the gay lifestyle, i have no more right to tell a couple of dudes they cant get married than they have to tell me i cant get married. as far as military service goes, i think gays should be considered the way we consider women. allow them to join but no frontline combat and no sub duty. the stakes are just too high in those areas of our military to allow those kinds of distractions.