Womd

[shartley]

Originally posted by paintballguy429


I never said it was, I said it was the primary justification for the war by the Bushies.

If you would like to explain why you think we attacked them, please do.

[paintballguy429]

Originally posted by shartley

Hmmmmm.....You would think that it wouldn't be a waste of time to think about why Americans are killing and dieing thousands of miles away....

Wow, maybe I'm just out of touch.

[shartley]

Originally posted by paintballguy429
Hmmmmm.....You would think that it wouldn't be a waste of time to think about why Americans are killing and dieing thousands of miles away....

Wow, maybe I'm just out of touch.

[shartley]

Then again.. why am I even bothering with you? LOL The links in your signature say it all....

[paintballguy429]

What do they say? That I am concerned with social justice? That I actually care about people's lives?

Just to let you know, rolling your eyes isn't actually an argument.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
All of this is what I say will never happen. The second US troops step out, a sort of civil war will break out with all minorities vying for power. Any government put into power by the US will be hit with anti Muslim claims, and pro western claims.

Not true. As long as the government is given a chance to grow (which we will be there for that) it has a legitimate chance of success. Remember that all the factions are being represented in the government. I really believe that given a year or two to get off their feet this will work. Remember, most Iraqis are more then thrilled to be freed and to self govern. The violence we here about is the handful of baathists and foreign terrorists.

Face it, your lighthouse beacon to the world did not work in Vietnam it will not work in Iraq. (even though the two are technically different)

Yeah, completely different. So different as to not even be remotely comparable the way your talking.

Albinonewt. You all are tacking this issue the wrong way. Just because someone says they do not agree with the war, does not mean they are not glad Saddam is gone. There are countless ways to remove saddam and establish a new regime less publicly and way more effective. The fact that these ideas were never tried is what many call foul to. Voters on the right love a war.

Like what CB? How else do you get the dictator out of power? He was asked to leave. Offered exhile in a number of other countries. We sent in weapons inspectors. We sent over humantarian missions. Still he tried to expand his weapons arsenal and starved and murdered his people. Anyone that did not get behind the forceable removal of that evil dictator then condoned his prescence their, either intentionally or through ignorance.

The difference between Japan and Germany and Iraq now are far in between. I am surprised you can not see that.

Well, Germany and Japan were both worse off and less ripe for the reconstruction process as Iraq is now. In both of the prior situations it was the allies who caused the damage. They were not instantly welcomes by the vast majority of the populace. The Iraqi situation parrellels the German and Japan situations about as closely as any history does.



The US is trying to accomplish a peace in Israel and Palestine. Invading Israel is as of yet not an option, but may one day be. I doubt it, since it is Israel that is under constant attack and the Palestinians that are the violent offenders.

Although, why Israel doesn't just pull back the settlements is a mystery I'll never understand. All they need to do to win is pull back, sit behind their wall, and kill anyone that looks suspicious. I don't know why they refuse to do it.

I am not saying we should save everyone. Why choose Iraq when there our others worse off is all I am asking. A modern day holocaust in Kosovo deserved action.

Hundreds of thousands died in Iraq. I think that's as good as place as any to begin. After all, the near genocide carried on against the Kurds has to count for something, doesn't it?

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by paintballguy429
Not to mention that the Nazis were in the process of invading multiple countries when we got involved with WWII.
Iraq has not invaded anyone for more than 10 years, the same can't be said for the US.

Listen to yourself!

Oh, because Saddam hasn't invaded a sovereign nation unprovoked without warning in 10 years it's ok that he acquires weapons and murders thousands?

That's the most insane thing I ever heard

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by paintballguy429


This week I heard 56.

He needs this war not only for the mainstream public but to appease the hardcore right-wing.

He's got an election in a little over a year and if he doesn't kiss up to the extremists he will lose votes out to the farther right voters (like Gore losing votes to Nader).

Um, he needs to appease the hard right while appealing to the mainsteam?

Sounds to me like everyone is for this except the far left. Well, that's good enough for me.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
I already know why Bush didn't invade North Korea. I explained it. I do not want him to. As for these dangerous madmen with weapons-we have supported Israel for years in their genocide against the Palestinians. They have a very extensive nuclear arsenal, most of which was developed by money we gave them.

The Israeli's genocide? Do you even watch what's going on? The Israeli armed forces take countless casulties by engaging the Palestian terrorists on the ground where they can minimilize the Palestinian innoncent casaulties. It's not the Israelis that hunt down children and gun them down. It isn't the Israelis that sneak bombs into discos and malls to kill people. It isn't the Israelis that bomb busses. They simply try to stop the terrorists that the Palestinian government claims they are fighting against, despite the complete lack of any evidence of that fight. The Israelis are guilty of only one thing, being too stubborn to pull the settlements out.

I am not at all a fan of Hussein, he contradicts everything I believe in and was a sick, murderous ruler. In my opinion, this is not justificatoion to send thousands of kids out to kill and die, and then offer false reasoning (WOMD) as to why hundreds of Americans and over 3,000 Iraqis have been killed.

Right, it's reason to watch him kill thousands and refuse to ever act.

Liberalism is defined in mordern days by appeasing evil to maintain the status quo.

[paintballguy429]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Listen to yourself!

Oh, because Saddam hasn't invaded a sovereign nation unprovoked without warning in 10 years it's ok that he acquires weapons and murders thousands?

That's the most insane thing I ever heard

The argument for invading Iraq was the idea that he was a threat!

If you want to argue that we should have invaded because of his atrocities, then do so. But you won't find much support there, not even with some of the conservatives.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by paintballguy429
What do they say? That I am concerned with social justice? That I actually care about people's lives?

No, the links make it clear that you too far gone is the radical ideology on one side to ever hear anything but what they say.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by paintballguy429
The argument for invading Iraq was the idea that he was a threat!

If you want to argue that we should have invaded because of his atrocities, then do so. But you won't find much support there, not even with some of the conservatives.

What are you babbling about?

He was a threat? Did you not notice when he tried to assassinate an ex-President? Were you sleeping when he invaded Kuwait. Did you run out to the Starbucks when David Kay was detailing the weapons programs he found? Did you think the terrorists we caught in Baghdad the day it fell got there by accident?

[paintballguy429]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Albinonewt

Originally posted by paintballguy429
I already know why Bush didn't invade North Korea. I explained it. I do not want him to. As for these dangerous madmen with weapons-we have supported Israel for years in their genocide against the Palestinians. They have a very extensive nuclear arsenal, most of which was developed by money we gave them.

The Israeli's genocide? Do you even watch what's going on? The Israeli armed forces take countless casulties by engaging the Palestian terrorists on the ground where they can minimilize the Palestinian innoncent casaulties. It's not the Israelis that hunt down children and gun them down. It isn't the Israelis that sneak bombs into discos and malls to kill people. It isn't the Israelis that bomb busses. They simply try to stop the terrorists that the Palestinian government claims they are fighting against, despite the complete lack of any evidence of that fight. The Israelis are guilty of only one thing, being too stubborn to pull the settlements out.

I am not at all a fan of Hussein, he contradicts everything I believe in and was a sick, murderous ruler. In my opinion, this is not justificatoion to send thousands of kids out to kill and die, and then offer false reasoning (WOMD) as to why hundreds of Americans and over 3,000 Iraqis have been killed.

Right, it's reason to watch him kill thousands and refuse to ever act.

Liberalism is defined in mordern days by appeasing evil to maintain the status quo.

Compare the figures of how many Israelis have been killed by terrorist attacks and how many innocent Palestinians have been slaughtered by Israeli raids. The latter is at least 5 times higher. Just a couple days ago Israel ordered 15 Palestinians to be turned over. They weren't, so Israel raids Gaza, killing 8 people and leaving 1,500 homeless.

How was Sadaam appeased? He wasn't, you are just firing off idiotic conservative rhetoric and trying to compare this case with the Nazis. We had sanctions against Iraq.

[paintballguy429]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


What are you babbling about?

He was a threat? Did you not notice when he tried to assassinate an ex-President? Were you sleeping when he invaded Kuwait. Did you run out to the Starbucks when David Kay was detailing the weapons programs he found? Did you think the terrorists we caught in Baghdad the day it fell got there by accident?

Kuwait was 10 years ago, that doesn't have anything to do with him being a threat today. David Kay is an extremely biased, militaristic, patriotic man who I would not trust. Terrorists found in Baghdad have nothing to do with Hussein, they prove nothing. It's like saying the US supports rape because there are rapists in the country.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
Compare the figures of how many Israelis have been killed by terrorist attacks and how many innocent Palestinians have been slaughtered by Israeli raids. The latter is at least 5 times higher. Just a couple days ago Israel ordered 15 Palestinians to be turned over. They weren't, so Israel raids Gaza, killing 8 people and leaving 1,500 homeless.

So maybe next time they'll hand over the terrorists. I'm sorry that people get killed and have homelessness inflicted on them but they chose a side in a war. When you harbor terrorists you choose their side. If they wouldn't do that, HELL if they HELPED instead, the whole process would have moved along years ago.

How was Sadaam appeased? He wasn't, you are just firing off idiotic conservative rhetoric and trying to compare this case with the Nazis. We had sanctions against Iraq.

He was left in power for more then a decade and allowed to continue his brutal treatment and murder of his people for that time with little or no interfernce from anyon else despite his clear violations of the cease fire he signed.

Sounds like he was appeased to me.

It is pretty similiar to Hitler. Not exactly the same, Saddam didn't have quite the same ability to amass a conventional army. But he does bear many similiarities to Hitler and his conquest.