z-grips, why? don't read this if you don't want to hear it

[AGD]

Guys,

The Z makes a lot of sense when shooting and much less sense when running. This was the main complaint when we had it out. Most likely when we bring the ZGrip back it will be a little less "Z". The plan would be to have the tip of the barrel inline with your arm when you hold the new grip and point your arm straight out. The barrel would be pointing slightly downward so when you run it wouldn't seem that the barrel is pointing behind you. Still time before we get to it so wait for the pics.

AGD

[Miscue]

Do you think the Z-Grip 2.0 will be an option for new RT Pro buyers?

[MajorDamage]

I'd actually prefer a little more Z! !

ENDO!

[bofh]

Originally posted by MajorDamage
I'd actually prefer a little more Z! !

ENDO!

Tom,

Dare I say, some sort of adjustable Z-grip? With under the grip, screw-in for three or four angles?

Or is that crazy people talk?

[shartley]

bofh
I love that idea. I don't know if it would be cost effective to make, but it might be worth looking into. It would truly allow the user to customize his/her Marker.

I would even go as far as to say that it could be adjusted in smaller increments as well... like the cog in a small gear, and locked into any number of positions, quickly and easily. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that would cause a problem is the trigger guard.... when you change the grip angle, the guard length changes.

The other thing is the more components needed to make it work means more chance of it breaking... and more work in assembling, and more in production costs, etc. These things may prohibit it from being a viable solution at this time....

But interesting idea. I hope Tom thinks about this for maybe a future project if the ZGrip takes off. Maybe call it the ZGrip Xtreme?

[bofh]

I think I might try to build a prototype once I get my workbench and drill press.

I also see a problem with the drop foward mounting holes on the bottom, which could be fixed by putting the same kind of adjustment system at the bottom of the grip.

It does bear some looking into...

[shartley]

ahhh Yes, that would be a problem... but easily solved as you described. Good thinking. Let me know how it progresses... when you start.

[shartley]

bofh
Had a couple minutes and escaped from the phone calls... LOL

I took your idea and worked up a concept graphic for you. I have NO idea yet how the upper swivel would work, but maybe with more time and thought, I could come up with some things.

But this graphic shows a concept for lower swivel looks and how it would effect the overall look and shape of the grip. I also used a small drop forward (courtesy of another member's posted picture..) also shown in this graphic as a reference between the existing design and the Z-Xtreme. This swivel could actually be a smooth lock and just tighten (with a hex wrench) to whatever angle works best for the user. I am sure this would be easier to manufacture as well.

I also thought that it would look nice with color matched grips. So I made this one with deep red.. I think it looks sweet.

What do you think? And of course the top swivel still needs designing.

[bofh]

Shartly,

For the trigger guard, a hinge in the middle and where it connects to the frame would allow it to move with the grip.

The biggest problem I see it the trigger and making it change with the grip. It would take a lot of voodoo, to make the trigger the same across the whole range of motion...

thinking...

... unless you made the upper hinge right where the trigger rod hinges. That way you'd have a constant distance from the trigger back to the sear. you could get rid of the hinged trigger guard and make the trigger and the guard swing with the grip. I'll have to fire up the Gimp and make a picture

Shaun

[shartley]

LOL I thought about what you said.... and thought... and thought. I made the changes in my head... and more.. and more... LOL

Very problematic would be putting it lightly. There are so many variables that I just don't see it as a viable idea. Too many moving parts. Too many weak points. I think the complexity would kill it in manufacturing.

It IS a cool idea though. I wish you luck in your tinkering.. let me know how it goes.

[MajorDamage]

Yes! COOL IDEA! Because I feel the Z-Grip could use a little more Z because it isnt in the PERFECT natural hand motion the way it is. There is a tiny bit of bending(not to where your wrist hurts, but ya know) and I would like it to be like when you hold your stock mag frame pointing it towards the air. Its a big Z and very comfy! Do you understand what I am saying, or do I just sound like a <B>MORON</B>?

ENDO!

[shartley]

MajorDamage
No, you do not sound like a moron. It is a great idea, it allows each player to find the exact angle that works best for THEM.

But as was pointed out, there are a LOT of things that need to be changed to make one simple adjustment. This is where the problem comes in. I think it will just be too many parts and too much that could get messed up. Production cost would skyrocket, the grip would have MANY weak points, etc.

But again.. GREAT idea. I am sure it will not rest with a few of the members. I know bofh will keep at it.

I took another break and whipped up this image for you all. It does not incorporate any upper swivel yet, but I wanted to see how it would look on an actual EMag. LOL

This is not perfect, but not bad for a couple minutes work. Hope you like it.

[bofh]

After a thinking about it for while, (and avoiding any thoughts about file systems, like I should doing... )

I think it would only be feasible to make the z-ness adjustable, and not have it adjust all the way to a regular frame. Since the triggers pivot in different locations...

Thinking...

What do you guys think of a trigger pivot on the bottom of the trigger instead of at the top? That might allow a full range of motion from normal frame to z-ness, and still keep the trigger close to the same the whole time...

I'll have to draw up some pictures tonight. This is turing out to be a fairly interesting project.

Shaun

[MajorDamage]

*licks lips and drools over Shartley's Zmag!*
Yay! I didn't sound like a moron(is this a first!?)! I was wondering if the whole stock frame pointing up thing made any sence, its hard to describe...Well anyways NICE PICS SHARTLEY! You guys brainstorm and come up with the Z-Grip Xtreme and I will sit patiently and WAIT!

ENDO!

[shartley]

bofh
Interesting concept. I think this should be kept going.... if only for experimental purposes. I still think it will be far too complex and too many parts to be a mass produced item.... that would make it VERY expensive, and few would buy it.

But full speed ahead!