Sniper questions (no, not a scope on a tippmann!)

[magking1971]

For anybody that has been in the service, What caliber rifle do they use? Or do they have different caliber's for each branch of service?
Thanks.

[Minimag4me]

i know the marine scout/snipers use an armor piercing 50 cal

[sajohnston]

NATO 7.62 x 54 or .308 Winchester (same round)

This is the standard round used by all services. Common platforms are the Remmington model 700 bolt action and Springfield Armory M14 Super/national Match grade semi auto.

The .50 cal with 19x spotting scope attached is mainly used for countersniper ops from fixed bases. Famed USMC sniper Carlos Hathcock made it noteworthy when he drilled a NVA troop in the chin with it at somewhere around two miles in Viet Nam.

The Barrett .50 cal made famous by navy seals (yes it will easily punch through concrete block but FLIR and I2 optics can't see through such walls) is in use by Explosive Ordinance Disposal (EOD) of most branches as well. At 36 pounds without ammo and scope it is not practical for a sniper to crawl on his belly with as he stalks.

[slateman]

The Marines use a modified Remington 700. They have a fiberglass stock and a different barrel. It's almost an inch wide. I think that Germany's army uses a military version of a PSG1. That's 7.62mm round also.

The secrest service, however, has a wide assortment of sniper rifles ranging from a bolt action 7mm to one made by sig sauer that's in 5.56 calbier and is basically an assualt rifle.


P.S. Didn't Carlos Hathcock shoot the NVA soldier with a .50 cal machine gun with a scope on top?

[sajohnston]

Yeah it was essentially a 19x spotting scope attached with a mount his platoon developed. The same setup they used for their quad .50s for perimeter defense.

[Army]

Hello again Sir, long time no post!

Gunny Hathcock hit the NVA at a measured 2500m, according to his Biography.

BTW; Have you had your Battalion web page updated yet? If so, please post it!

[MikeCouves]

Wow, people here know everything about anything. There is alot of interesting people here.

[Webmaster]

KayleAGD has a Barrett .50 with a real nice Leopold Scope IIRC.

And the user 50cal (50caliber?) Works in the Barrett factory...

One of my American Riflemans from a few months back had an article on the Marine sniper rifle used since Nam and the custom mods they do from the stock gun. Interesting stuff...

BTW - their scopes you can drive tent stakes with and they will still hold "zero".

[Minimag4me]

the marine scout/sniper school is in camp pendleton(where i sometimes play paintball) i have heard(history channel) that some seals use the m14 for sniping. The 50 is cool though becuase a sniper can skillfully take out a tank in one shot(depleated uranium round). The sniper school is very difficult(like 5 round pattern in a 2" circle at a mile, i think).

[Webmaster]

"The 50 is cool though becuase a sniper can skillfully take out a tank in one shot(depleated uranium round). "

I could be mistaken - but I believe that is a bit far fetched. The .50 was originally an Anti-tank gun during WWI - back when Tanks were in thier infancy. While it still packs a punch - I dont see it doing much against something like an Abrams. The spent Uranium rounds they use to bust tanks open are from larger cannons of other tanks or the 30mm gatling gun of the A-10 attack plane. I cant concieve a single bullet disabling a tank with one shot...

[Doobie]

I'm with Webby. I've been to the U.S. Army Sniper school and fired the M24 sniper weapon system and the Barett .50cal. The .50 will punch through LIGHT skinned vehicles (Hummve's and the like)and IS a little heavy to drag with you on a stalk. BTW, my 1st shot at 1000 meters...one shot, one kill!

[slateman]

the .50cal is an "anti-material" weapon. The theory is that a forty cent round that demolishes a $2000 radio or disables a truck is a pretty good deal. Yes they can and have used them on people but there main purpose is to take out equipment and thus slow your enemy down.

[sajohnston]

Webbie is right, it got its AT or anti tank moniker from the trenches of WWI. It was originally designed to disable those thinned skinned tanks. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a depleted uranium round (DU) in production for the .50 at this time. There is standard AP or Armor Piercing but it is not DU. Against modern tanks (like our M1A2 that is actually made from DU) it would serve only to wake up the crew with a loud ping against the hull. Even the A-10's mini gun achieves its effects by volume of fire, I have seen this first hand or JAAT live fires. Against modern tanks the sheer number of DU rounds it spits out is designed to disable the tank. Their 30mm packs more power than the 30mm chain gun on my AH64, their round is 1/3 again longer, thus more propellant. Hey you can do that when your gun is 15x the size too! The 30mm on the Apache can penetrate 2-3 of homogenous steel with HEDP (high explosive, dual purpose). My rounds have a 5m burst radius as well.

The comment "to take out equipment" is based on the law of land warfare. Some bureaucrat decided that the .50 used against personnel would be cruel and inhumane. So it is "illegal" to engage personnel directly with the .50 but hey, I can still shoot your helmet, rucksack, or canteen! Besides that a M2 .50 cal quickly devours trucks, etc. It is so much fun to shoot because the round flies so flat and you can actually see it naked eye because it is so big (tracers help too).

[Webmaster]

"Some bureaucrat decided that the .50 used against personnel would be cruel and inhumane."

By inhumane you mean vaporizing the body part it hits....

If I recall correctly, the theroy behind that "rule of warfar" and the stipulation for using "full metal jackets", is not only to be more "humane", but also because for everyone one person you wound, you have 1 or 2 others dragging him off the field - thus defeating 1-3 enemies in a battle.

[magking1971]

Good info guys, thanks.