U.S. Bars War Opponents....

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

That is because no further response was needed. Conquer a country and then leave and you have Germany after WWI. Conquer a country and rebuild them and you have Germany and Japan post WWII, in other words Allies!

But Iraq is not Japan or Germany. It is mroe like Yugoslavia (former),former Austro Hungarian Empire, former Ottoman Empire. It was a country who was full of differing ethnic groups who don't mind killing each other for they are different then them and pose a threat to them. These countries lived for ages and ages and ages through the idea of a strong leader holding them together. The second western ideas hit them, they feel and have spawned the crisises that are still going on today. Iraq will not be a beaken of light to spread the sun shine of democracy all over the middle east. It will be a country forever in turmoil over civil war, that will be grasped by death. It will be a country who will give rise to the Arab in a purple coat who walks into the court of the world and takes over the world (see if anyone knows where that comes from). Now is that freedom? To me that sounds terrible and not something that I would like to live in.

As to my quote on democracy. Democracy is not made for everyone, it is a basic fundamental idea of government that works with some people, just like a monarchy only works for some people and so forth. It is not rasist to state that some people are not suited for a democratic government. It is a plain fact. If you do not see that then I am sorry, it seems that you need to get out more and see the world around you. You know the world ins't just 4 time zones and two states.

As to saying that I am to blame for you calling me names. I with hold me wants to lash out in immature posting, why can't you.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
As to my quote on democracy. Democracy is not made for everyone, it is a basic fundamental idea of government that works with some people, just like a monarchy only works for some people and so forth. It is not rasist to state that some people are not suited for a democratic government. It is a plain fact. If you do not see that then I am sorry, it seems that you need to get out more and see the world around you. You know the world ins't just 4 time zones and two states.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
As to saying that I am to blame for you calling me names. I with hold me wants to lash out in immature posting, why can't you.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Restola

I'll second that.

Most political discussion here has been ruined by really immature name-calling from people not willing to back up their statements (I'm looking at the older conservative crowd that hangs around...)

am I supposed to be contrite now?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


But Iraq is not Japan or Germany. It is mroe like Yugoslavia (former),former Austro Hungarian Empire, former Ottoman Empire. It was a country who was full of differing ethnic groups who don't mind killing each other for they are different then them and pose a threat to them. These countries lived for ages and ages and ages through the idea of a strong leader holding them together. The second western ideas hit them, they feel and have spawned the crisises that are still going on today. Iraq will not be a beaken of light to spread the sun shine of democracy all over the middle east. It will be a country forever in turmoil over civil war, that will be grasped by death. It will be a country who will give rise to the Arab in a purple coat who walks into the court of the world and takes over the world (see if anyone knows where that comes from). Now is that freedom? To me that sounds terrible and not something that I would like to live in.

India is a mesh of Hindus, Muslims, and Seihks, yet they make democracy work. I am so glad you are psychic and can see the future so clearly. Maybe they will suprise you. Look at Iran. They are tettering on the verge of democracy. They have a freely elected president and parliment. They have a large percentage of their population under 30. They are bucking for more and more freedoms. The Clergy will not hold power there for too much longer and BAM we will have another muslim democracy!

As to my quote on democracy. Democracy is not made for everyone, it is a basic fundamental idea of government that works with some people, just like a monarchy only works for some people and so forth. It is not rasist to state that some people are not suited for a democratic government. It is a plain fact. If you do not see that then I am sorry, it seems that you need to get out more and see the world around you. You know the world ins't just 4 time zones and two states.

So some people are meant to have no say in their lot in life? That sounds pretty closed minded to me. You are saying they are not smart enough to rule themselves and need a dictator to do it for them? Your idea of the world doesn't sound to inclusive to me.

As to saying that I am to blame for you calling me names. I with hold me wants to lash out in immature posting, why can't you.

"I with hold me wants to lash out"

We don't need to here about you holding yourself!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by mcveighr


That wasnt my question.

What was then?

And you dont have to live in a democracy to live free.

It sure helps! Maybe a republic too.

Living under a totalitarian regime by definition is not being able to live free!

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy


But Iraq is not Japan or Germany. It is mroe like Yugoslavia (former),former Austro Hungarian Empire, former Ottoman Empire. It was a country who was full of differing ethnic groups who don't mind killing each other for they are different then them and pose a threat to them.

You know what contry has a profound resemblence to Iraq? Poland. Poland had basically the exact same problems Iraq did after WWII. And it's ok.

these countries lived for ages and ages and ages through the idea of a strong leader holding them together. The second western ideas hit them, they feel and have spawned the crisises that are still going on today.

What are you babbling about? The Arab nations were the most advanced in the medievil days but have by and large failed to move foward since then. There are a lot of reasons but the main is a reliance on their one major national resource, oil.

Iraq will not be a beaken of light to spread the sun shine of democracy all over the middle east. It will be a country forever in turmoil over civil war, that will be grasped by death. It will be a country who will give rise to the Arab in a purple coat who walks into the court of the world and takes over the world (see if anyone knows where that comes from). Now is that freedom? To me that sounds terrible and not something that I would like to live in.

Neither do they, which is why they will work together to avoid it. You make it sound like it is inevitable that these people (who you obviously deam inferrior to western peoples as an aspect of your racism) will fail. I do not take that notion for granted, nor do I feel that their success is guaranteed. That is why we must stay by their side and help them.


As to my quote on democracy. Democracy is not made for everyone, it is a basic fundamental idea of government that works with some people, just like a monarchy only works for some people and so forth. It is not rasist to state that some people are not suited for a democratic government.

Um, yeah it is. To say that based solely on being a different race precludes people from having the ability to live in freedom IS racist.

It is a plain fact.

Well, then I suppose you'll be the one to tell India and Turkey that they can't do what they're doing and they need to find a tyrant to rule them quickly, since they're too inferrior to rule themselves. Your racism sickens me.

If you do not see that then I am sorry, it seems that you need to get out more and see the world around you.

You know that when I talk about Turkey I'm not talking about dinner on Thanksgiving, right? It's a country, close to Iraq. It has Arabs and all kinds of other people living in a Democracy, right there in the middle east. Which of course, according to you, is factually impossible. Yet they keep on doing it, just to annoy us.

You know the world ins't just 4 time zones and two states.

What two states cover 4 times zones? I didn't know that.

As to saying that I am to blame for you calling me names. I with hold me wants to lash out in immature posting, why can't you.

I have. I've called you only one thing, and I substaniated why I believe you are that one thing. (and you've gone out of your way to prove my point).

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by mcveighr
What about the countries that donate millions of dollars to the US to rebuild?

Is this the question you're talking about?

I would say I was a little suprised to see Canada on the banned list, since they did contribute cash. However, they are really the only nation that opposed the war that did contribute afterwards. Also, their opposistion to the war was pretty week, meaning they didn't really try to screw it up for us (like France), they just said they didn't like it. So I was a little suprised by the move. But, it still makes sense in the context of Bush's rationale, which is only nations that contributed troops to the coalition could participate, and Canada didn't do that.

I honestly think Bush included Canada as a shot to Creitin and he plans to include Canada in the bidding and then give the credit to Canada's new PM (who's name I can't remember and I'm not in the mood to look it up. I'm waiting for my memory to kick in)

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by mcveighr
So the US is a dictator?

Or is this the question you were talking about?

Frankly, I always find this question stupid. We are not a dictator. We couldn't be even if we desired it, since we have a thousand opinions on EVERYTHING. We have no unified voice or will to dictate to the world what we collectivly want, because collectivly we can't agree on what we want. So no, we're not a dictator.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Albinonewt

I honestly think Bush included Canada as a shot to Creitin and he plans to include Canada in the bidding and then give the credit to Canada's new PM (who's name I can't remember and I'm not in the mood to look it up. I'm waiting for my memory to kick in)

I think you are right. Our new PM, Paul Martin, has already spoken to President Bush on the phone and been assured that Canadian companies will be allowed to bid on US-funded rebuilding contracts in Iraq. Martin has said it will be a priority of his to patch up any damage done to the Canada-US relationshipby his predecessor.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Jeffy-CanCon
I think you are right. Our new PM, Paul Martin

Damn you, I was waiing for my memory to kick in!

But thanx, that's his name. It's not ingrained in here (points at head) quite yet.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I think mcveighr's unanswered question was along the lines of:

'why doesn't the USA go after other countries who have evil dictators, and who may pose a greater threat. Like China or North Korea'

I think the simple answer to this lies in the proverb "pick battles small enough to win, large enough to matter". Not to say that the USA could not defeat any country on earth if it so chose, but some would be more difficult than others.

Removing the communist government in China would be a huge underaking, and almost certainly cost millions of American lives, and countless number of Chinese, Japanese and others. I think everyone would rather that we avoided that if we could. North Korea would not be quite so difficult, but still much tougher than Iraq. They have a large army, and are deeply dug in to very tough terrain. They have enough heavy artillery to do real damage to Seoul, and probably kill tens of thousands of South Korean civilians in the first day of a war. They have missiles capable of reaching Japan, and they may have nuclear bombs.

Taking out Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq:
(A) ... serves as a warning to other powers, that the USA might come after them someday. It keeps them on their toes, and maybe a little better behaved.
(B) ... will allow the US military to reduce or remove its forces in Saudi Arabia. Christian soldiers in the muslim holy land is one of the principle complaints of Arab terrorists. Removing the troops also allows the USA to take a harder line with the government in Saudi Arabia, and pres them for reforms, since they will not be dependant on their hospitality. US support for a repressive Saudi monarchy is another frequent Arab complaint.
(C) ... will almost certainly prove profitable in the long run. Much of the money being spent "in Iraq" will actually be spent in the USA, buying supplies and spare parts for the troops, supplies and equipment for the rebuilding, etc. Also as profits for US corporations doing rebuilding contracts. And of course, there is the oil. Removing Saddam and installing a pro-US government will mean that Iraqi oil will now be pumped and distributed by American oil companies, rather than French, German and Russian ones.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Jeffy-CanCon


I think you are right. Our new PM, Paul Martin, has already spoken to President Bush on the phone and been assured that Canadian companies will be allowed to bid on US-funded rebuilding contracts in Iraq. Martin has said it will be a priority of his to patch up any damage done to the Canada-US relationshipby his predecessor.

I hope this is the case, Canada is one of our best friends.

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


I hope this is the case, Canada is one of our best friends.

Pfft. Canada's never had a girlfriend

[Albinonewt]

Wow, with Saddam's capture the game in Iraq is going to be completely different. I can't wait to see what they do next. I'll tell you what though, chances for an Iraqi democracy just improved drastically. This is a big deal for them and a big blow to the naysayers. This couldn't have been better news and it comes at a very important moment.

[Sir_Brass]

That it was announced on a sunday seems to be significant as well . I take it as a kind of sign .



It's not over, yet, and all 55 still haven't been captured yet. There are still a fair amount of the 55 left. But we got the big one.

Look at him, caught cowering in a hole in the ground. That's now what a leader leading a just and right cause would do, that's the actions of a coward who knows he was wrong and is trying to avoid getting captured.

I'm looking forward to hearing what Bush has to say about this .