Raising the draft age.

[Chojin Man]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Where did you get your numbers?

By your figures, that means over 9000 military deaths in 2001! That makes no sense!

This chart which was linked from the DoD website.

http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/Death_Rates1.pdf

and the car wreck data found on the nhtsa site

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...nn/TSF2001.pdf

[banzaimf]

Originally posted by Chojin Man


This chart which was linked from the DoD website.

http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/Death_Rates1.pdf

and the car wreck data found on the nhtsa site

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...nn/TSF2001.pdf

Uhm, I think you are reading that incorrectly. I think that by total deaths they mean the same type of total as they do with total military. Not per 100k. The stats after that are a break down per 100k of deaths. I'd like to note that in 2002, more people were killed in the US Military of Self Inflicted wounds than Hostile action.

[Flamebo]

Originally posted by Zumina


So those 50-100,000 kurds died of the common cold?

That had nothing to do with our invasion, and as it was none of our business YEARS AGO when it happened, it is a pathetic excuse for our CURRENT actions. While it may be used as an excuse by our current adminitration since there are no WMD to be found, it is certainly not the reason our troops are there. The bottom line is daddy failed, and dubya felt he had something to prove.

[Chojin Man]

"I think that by total deaths they mean the same type of total as they do with total military. Not per 100k. The stats after that are a break down per 100k of deaths."

huh? Thats what I was looking for the total deaths for all branches.

"That had nothing to do with our invasion, and as it was none of our business YEARS AGO when it happened, it is a pathetic excuse for our CURRENT actions. While it may be used as an excuse by our current adminitration since there are no WMD to be found, it is certainly not the reason our troops are there. The bottom line is daddy failed, and dubya felt he had something to prove."

Well while it has been recently publicised that Bush lied to us about the reasons for invading Iraq. It still doesn't change the fact that we did overthrow their government. Its a little too late now to back out. We are going to have to stick with it for the long haul now.

[shartley]

[shartley]

Originally posted by Chojin Man

Well while it has been recently publicised that Bush lied to us about the reasons for invading Iraq. It still doesn't change the fact that we did overthrow their government. Its a little too late now to back out. We are going to have to stick with it for the long haul now.

[Zygote]

Originally posted by Zumina


So those 50-100,000 kurds died of the common cold?

They were killed with weapons we gave to Iraq to fight Iran with. We didn't seem to care about them being used on Kurds then, so using them to rationalize a war 20 years later is hypocritical in the least.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Flamebo

...
That had nothing to do with our invasion, and as it was none of our business YEARS AGO when it happened, it is a pathetic excuse for our CURRENT actions. While it may be used as an excuse by our current adminitration since there are no WMD to be found, it is certainly not the reason our troops are there. The bottom line is daddy failed, and dubya felt he had something to prove.

IMO, that line of thinking ("none of our business")is a big part of why the UN is almost useless. It's really just a discussion forum, isn't it? We live in a global village where assault and murder are only illegal if the victims do not live in the attackers house. Not that it matters, since there is no police force. :^p

Originally posted by Zygote

They were killed with weapons we gave to Iraq to fight Iran with. We didn't seem to care about them being used on Kurds then, so using them to rationalize a war 20 years later is hypocritical in the least.

The USA didn't give Iraq (many) weapons 20 years ago. They were mostly supplied by the Russians and Chinese. With technical help from the French and Germans. And if you are referring to chemical weapons, they were almost certainly developed in-house.

[Zygote]

Russia, China, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Britain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Austria and the United States all sold about $48.7 billion worth of bio/chem weapons (including anthrax) and materials to create them to Iraq from 1981-1988.

Apparently they were mostly supplied by Germany.

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by Zumina


So those 50-100,000 kurds died of the common cold?

Well said.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Zygote
Russia, China, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Britain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Austria and the United States all sold about $48.7 billion worth of bio/chem weapons (including anthrax) and materials to create them to Iraq from 1981-1988.

Apparently they were mostly supplied by Germany.

Source please?

These seems inredibly large. That might be total arms sales,

[Zygote]

I couldn't confirm the number with more than 1 source so you might as well just ignore it. I agree that it does seem a bit high. It may be combined sales, of which West Germany seems to have been responsible for a full 50%.

the Riegle Report on US exports of biological materials to Iraq-check chapter 1, part 2 (there's a typo in the ToC that says the materials were sold to Iran, not Iraq):

http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html

horrible abstract for a Washington Post article, but if you feel like checking it out at the library or buying the article here's the info:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/272103761.html?did=272103761&FMT=ABS&FMTS=FT&desc=U.S.+Had+Key+Role+in+Iraq+Buildup%3b+Trade+in+Chemical+Arms+Allowed+Despite+Their+Use+on+Iranians,+Kurds

[gimp]

Originally posted by The Deacon
Whatever the age, the draft age should not be below the drinking age.

You can get sent to the desert and get shot at by terrorists but can't drink a cold one? There's something wrong with that.

I was gonna write the same exact thing

[Lakeview Bulldog]

/rant
I dont see anyhting wrong with everyone coming out of highschool and serving 1-2 years in either the millitary, government, or in an organization like the Red Cross or Peace Corps. What is wrong with giving back to the country that has given so much to you? teenagers today are so ungrateful. Most of them are overweight and lazy. I am 18 years old and my generation is the product of having it too good for too long. Most of the people in my highschool need a wakeup call. They are more concerned with what the ***** Eye for the Straight guy people are doing than national and world events. I think a year in the Marines would be the best thing that ever happened to a lot of people I know. It just makes me so angry to see all these people that think its okay to burn the flag, who are so naive to think that violence should never be an option, people who would rather have a barcode tattooed into there foreheads so they can get free government money than work for a living. And what is wrong with America doing things unilaterialy? Since when do we need the World's approval to do anything. That kind of stuff just makes me sick. If there are people out there who agree with me then turn your radios on AM around 7:00 EST and try and find a program called Savage nation with Dr. Mike Savage. or get one of his two books called Savage Nation or The Enemy within. They will change your life. /rant

By the way, Im suprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

[Flamebo]

Originally posted by shartley

I'll agree with you there.

Originally posted by shartley

And completely disagree with you here. I'm all ears for these "valid reasons". There was no imminent or even implied threat from Iraq. Regardless of how he treats the people of his nation, so what? It's fascinating how dozens of other nations do the same and we manage to stay completely uninvolved, but for some reason this particular "evildoer" just had to be stopped.

I've got beliefs on both ends of the spectrum, and I'm appalled by these "party voters" spouting out "liberal" and "conservative" like they're superior. I refuse to apologize for thinking for myself rather than compromise my beliefs by labelling myself one way or the other.

I'm all for democracy and I'd like to see more of it in this country, but it's disappointing when the masses have "elected" a figurehead chimp and will stick by their choice no matter the consequences. Anyway...

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." - Thomas Paine

Chew on that for awhile.