Israeli jets hit Lebanon targets

[Restola]

Originally posted by lord1234
i agree that we shouldn't but i also agree that we as a country should work to stop the terrorism that has many of its roots in the PLO.

So many people think this is nothing but a problem between a country and terrorists.

I ask how far you would go if the chinese were in Boston, bulldozing your house, setting up checkpoints, and shooting your friends when they looked suspicious. What if they had killed thousands of your fellow citizens, fired rockets into your neighbor's house, built walls to keep you out.

I don't expect a serious answer, because the truth is I doubt any of us know what we would do.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but this is definately more than a simple 'fight against terrorism'.

[lord1234]

Originally posted by Restola

I ask how far you would go if the chinese were in Boston, bulldozing your house, setting up checkpoints, and shooting your friends when they looked suspicious. What if they had killed thousands of your fellow citizens, fired rockets into your neighbor's house, built walls to keep you out.

Let's see what happened first...The arabs actually initially left without a fight, and were given money for their losses. Even now, there has been a PEACE treaty on the table waitin to be signed.

Any group who would use women who have 2 children in its suicide bomber army does not deserve my pity. Just my 2c

[Thordic]

Originally posted by lord1234
Any group who would use women who have 2 children in its suicide bomber army does not deserve my pity. Just my 2c

They deserve a 5.56mm :)

[spyder_strypes]

Originally posted by lord1234
Let's see what happened first...The arabs actually initially left without a fight, and were given money for their losses. Even now, there has been a PEACE treaty on the table waitin to be signed.

Any group who would use women who have 2 children in its suicide bomber army does not deserve my pity. Just my 2c

The Arabs first left without a fight? I think that was the British, in the late 40's, when the Jews(don't mean for it to sound derogatory in any way) were bombing hotels and attacking British check points so that they could have their own country.

The Arabs have always fought with the Israelis. Even though it was their own Arab governments that sold the land to the Jewish people, the people on the lower ranks of the heirarchy still resisted.

When did a single Arab nation ever recieve money from Isreal? Never. And what Peace treaty are you thinking of? As of now Sharon refuses to talk to the Syrian government about any peace plan.

One last thing, you must understand what pushes people to the edge of becoming suicide bombers. They live their lives in absolute squalor, with absolutely no hope for progressing in life. Their friends and family are being shot and killed daily, and nearly all are innocent. They realize that the life they're living now is so incredibly dismal, that they don't care about it any more. You have to know where they're coming from...

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by lord1234
Just my 2c

And worth less than that. I agree with Restola on this one (shock of shocks).

[lord1234]

treaty between PLO and Israel that still hasn't been able to go into effect due to terrorism. Ummm find me some (unbiased please) historical source about these Bombings of hotels...cuz i have done my share of reading on this subject.


Also, please dont just post "I agree" or "I disagree" why don't you state a reason...posts like taht just make you look ignorant.

And just on quick thought(edit): Jew's and Arab's(according to the bible) come from the same person, and did not always fight.

Also, who fired the first shot? I bring to you this point: stop killing jews, arabs stop dying, i will bet on it. 99 times out of 100 a relative peaceful time has randomly been broken by a Palestinian blowing up a random Israeli spot. Such as blowing up a night club full of youth...What kind of point does that put across? That "we will do it, so we can" ? Thats just silly. The US has the pwoer to Nuke the world 10000 times over...but yet never has. Its called being able to understand Mutually Assured Destruction. However, in this case its NOT a MAD scenario. We ALL know taht if worst came to worst, Israel could EASILY mop the floor with these fools.

[Restola]

So the chinese have destroyed your house, your neighborhood, killed dozens of people you know, and thousands more of your fellow citizens, still wont let you go to work, are building chinese settlements where you used to live, while continuing to expland. Then France comes along and says "hey guys, lets just stop now and be friends".

I assume you would happily forget the whole thing, move away to some other land? No compensation, no apologies, just give China your house, your land, everything you worked for (that they haven't destroyed). Collect any living relatives, and happily trot off to wherever france told you to go.

I want to restate this. No one is right here. Isreal isn't right, palestine isn't right. But you need to stop simplifying this. Your thoughts don't have to fit into neet 30 second segments, this isn't some biased news report, some situations are more complicated than that.

[lord1234]

Originally posted by Restola
So the chinese have destroyed your house, your neighborhood, killed dozens of people you know, and thousands more of your fellow citizens, still wont let you go to work, are building chinese settlements where you used to live, while continuing to expland. Then France comes along and says "hey guys, lets just stop now and be friends".

I assume you would happily forget the whole thing, move away to some other land? No compensation, no apologies, just give China your house, your land, everything you worked for (that they haven't destroyed). Collect any living relatives, and happily trot off to wherever france told you to go.

I want to restate this. No one is right here. Isreal isn't right, palestine isn't right. But you need to stop simplifying this. Your thoughts don't have to fit into neet 30 second segments, this isn't some biased news report, some situations are more complicated than that.

BUZZZ

The arabs were compensated for their land in 1948. Now they want more is pretty much the long and short.

[Thordic]

Borders are defined through conquest more than anything else, throughout history. Maps are determined through blood and weapons of war.

If you can't defend your land against a superior enemy, then you lose your claim on it. Thats not just a human thing, thats how nature works.

The USA exists because we have the strength of arms to defend our country from others. Due to our overwhelming power, we are allowed to indulge in assist those we chose in protecting their borders, lending them a portion of our strength.

Palestine has no strength of arms. They have no allies who will protect them. Is it necessarily their fault? Perhaps not. Although their actions certainly don't help them in rallying others to their cause.

Israel has a right to the land because they have the power to take it, and the force of will to keep it. The balance of power is in their favor.

Politics, of course, interfere with the mechanisms a bit.

Humanitarianism is good and all, but you can't try to make life "fair" for everyone. Life isn't fair. The Palestinians lost, they are just too stubborn to realize it. They are incapable of accepting and admitting defeat. One of these days, Israel is finally going to snap, and there will be no Palestinians, period. They are dooming themselves, but they are too short-sighted to change. I have no pity for them as a people. Sorry if that upsets you, but thats the way it is. They have a clear choice now: Admit defeat, and grant concessions, and start a new life somehow, or face annihilation.

[spyder_strypes]

Originally posted by lord1234
treaty between PLO and Israel that still hasn't been able to go into effect due to terrorism. Ummm find me some (unbiased please) historical source about these Bombings of hotels...cuz i have done my share of reading on this subject.

Also, who fired the first shot? I bring to you this point: stop killing jews, arabs stop dying, i will bet on it. 99 times out of 100 a relative peaceful time has randomly been broken by a Palestinian blowing up a random Israeli spot.

If you knew anything about history when Israel was being formed, you'd know about the Jewish armed rebellion that lasted for several years. They were responsible for countless British soldiers deaths, bombings of transit lines, and the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jeruselam. Here's a link if you still don't believe me.

Who fired the first shots? That's easy, Ariel Sharon did when he went to, against many of his cabinet members will, to one of the Holiest places for Muslim. He knew it would flare passions...

And there is no peace-treaty on the table. There have been countless cease-fires, but no treaties.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Thordic
Borders are defined through conquest more than anything else, throughout history. Maps are determined through blood and weapons of war.

If you can't defend your land against a superior enemy, then you lose your claim on it. Thats not just a human thing, thats how nature works.

The USA exists because we have the strength of arms to defend our country from others. Due to our overwhelming power, we are allowed to indulge in assist those we chose in protecting their borders, lending them a portion of our strength.

Palestine has no strength of arms. They have no allies who will protect them. Is it necessarily their fault? Perhaps not. Although their actions certainly don't help them in rallying others to their cause.

Israel has a right to the land because they have the power to take it, and the force of will to keep it. The balance of power is in their favor.

Politics, of course, interfere with the mechanisms a bit.

Humanitarianism is good and all, but you can't try to make life "fair" for everyone. Life isn't fair. The Palestinians lost, they are just too stubborn to realize it. They are incapable of accepting and admitting defeat. One of these days, Israel is finally going to snap, and there will be no Palestinians, period. They are dooming themselves, but they are too short-sighted to change. I have no pity for them as a people. Sorry if that upsets you, but thats the way it is. They have a clear choice now: Admit defeat, and grant concessions, and start a new life somehow, or face annihilation.

All I have to say is Theoredic, you are a retar! :) (have to keep some levity in this).

Yes. Borders have been defined by force of arms. We GIVE Israel tons of money. More than ANY other country. Are they third world and starving? Do they need our help so much in feeding their population? No? So why do they need so much foriegn aid from us? Can it be that without it they wouldn't be able to defend themselves? If you really believe the dog eat dog theory then why don't you advocate taking away the foreign aid and letting whatever happens to the borders happen?

And for that matter the American people have a right to question what is the purpose for all this money. It is our tax dollars after all....

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by spyder_strypes
One last thing, you must understand what pushes people to the edge of becoming suicide bombers. They live their lives in absolute squalor, with absolutely no hope for progressing in life. Their friends and family are being shot and killed daily, and nearly all are innocent. They realize that the life they're living now is so incredibly dismal, that they don't care about it any more. You have to know where they're coming from...

Hehehe that's funny. I'm going to go ahead and assume you've never read any of the studies regarding suicide bombers and their average background.

Unless you can reference a study or something to back up your statement that is....

[spyder_strypes]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
Hehehe that's funny. I'm going to go ahead and assume you've never read any of the studies regarding suicide bombers and their average background.

I've been to the West Bank, Israel, and Lebanon. I've seen it first hand, and don't need studies to back it up.

I was at Georgetown over the summer for a program on IR...we had professors and a women from AI tell us nearly the same thing...

[ShooterJM]

Oh cool! How many suicide bombers did you interview when you were there?

[spyder_strypes]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
Oh cool! How many suicide bombers did you interview when you were there?

They were dead before I could talk to them.