How to learn humility

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  • Patron God of Pirates
    ~pgop1.0
    • Apr 2002
    • 1196

    #1

    How to learn humility

    Why is it that intelligence and chess are associated? Much as I've seen seemingly weaker individuals win fights and arm wrestling contests, I've seen pure bone heads that are very good at chess.

    As much as I'm aware that I'm fairly intelligent, and they are the product of in breeding, I still feel the need to never lose to them in (what is falsely presumed to be) a battle of wits and cunning.

    In observing the game I've discovered that it is very much like math in that it has nothing to do with real strategy and everything to do with repetition and memorization. Certain types of people seem genetically pre-disposed to being skilled in both; Idiot savants, children, Russians, and the mentally retarded. So the formula appears to be that the simpler your mind, the more likely you are to pummel me ruthlessly in chess, tick-tack-toe, and Connect Four.

    Being that I don't drink (thus eliminating the Russian strategy) I've decided to approach this in much the same way that one gets better at Street Fighter II Championship Edition: Get pounded unrelentingly by a vastly superior opponent for hours at a time.

    And so I give you Macintosh OS X Chess, A.K.A. The Humiliator. Even on the lowest setting (settings go from "faster" to "stronger" moves) it refuses to make a bad move. In fact, I've determined that the faster setting is really only sets how quickly in demoralizes you.

    You can't win! Scratch that, I can't win. It even lets you take back moves as often as you like. If you take back enough of them you'll realize that you somehow actually lost from the very first move!?!

    After a few crushing losses you'll start to feel real stupid. And at some point you'll realize you're trying out calculate a computer... Then you'll feel REAL stupid.

    There may be some irony (or some justice) in that my goal was to compete with idiots, and in the end only becoming convinced of my own stupidity.

    -------

    PS- No offense to the many sound minded intelligent people who also happen to be good at chess. I hope to one day count among your ranks.

    PSS- No offense to Russians, Idiot Savants, or the mentally retarded. If it makes you feel better, I'll play you in few games of connect four.

    PSSS- Offense to children. You smell like pee.
  • Python14
    Norsk
    • Jun 2001
    • 3343

    #2
    Oh, I too share your pain. As much as I love chess, I suck at it. Even when I find out some awsome new strategy or move to try, it seems everyone else(even infants) learn the counter to it and make an *** of me.

    I have a love/hate relationship with computer chess though. I love playing it because I know that the machine that is beating me was designed for the sole purpose of thinking quickly and methodically. It's memory bank of moves and plans is endless and is not affected by the intoxicating distractions known as sleep and a girlfriend standing behind you. However, I hate the fact that I am paying for a machine to beat me in a game that I have been trying to master for 14 years.

    Maybe I should just go back to Magic: The gathering or something, where after a few months, the computer became outdated and my decks were always superior to it's decks.
    BLOODY MURDER!

    Comment

    • PyRo
      President Bioloaf inc.
      • Dec 2000
      • 10186

      #3
      I have a solution. Get one of those chess sets with shotglasses for pieces, by the time you lose you will be to drunk to realise it

      Comment

      • Miscue
        Super Moderator

        • Oct 2000
        • 7105

        #4
        Re: How to learn humility

        Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates

        In observing the game I've discovered that it is very much like math in that it has nothing to do with real strategy and everything to do with repetition and memorization.
        Absolutely not, this is the only reason why the best human players can still beat the strongest machines. Computers are mathematically flawless. They are beaten by taking advantage of their inability (for now) to do complex long-term planning.

        Pattern recognition and pure memorization is part of the game... this aids you in tactical play. Bobby Fischer is a great example, he is one of the best prepared players of all time. Strategy is absolutely a huge part of the game. Do I want to lock the board up with a closed board... do I want to have an open board and rely on my tactical abilities. Do I want to complicate the board further because I can out-think my opponent. Can I control this part of the board and attack with success... blah blah. You could study chess strategy for a lifetime.

        Don't worry about losing to chess players who play all the time. For many of them, that is ALL they do... and they damn well better beat you! It's better to enjoy the game for what it is, and not worry about "intelligence" and your ego. You can be a very bad chess player but be brilliant in other things... and vice-versa.

        From time to time, I can beat experts in a long game. And sometimes I can beat masters in a quick game. But I accepted the fact a long time ago that I will never be great at it... I just don't have the natural talent for it. So, I move on and do other things that are more constructive.

        Comment

        • dre1919
          www.andrewsloan.com
          • May 2002
          • 1548

          #5
          I have OS X chess on my Mac here at home, and let me say I agree completely. It will pretty much slap you around the room and make you look silly. "The Humiliator" is a correct name for this particular program.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • impostal22
            disgruntled...
            • Apr 2003
            • 1623

            #6
            Re: Re: How to learn humility

            Originally posted by Miscue


            Absolutely not, this is the only reason why the best human players can still beat the strongest machines. Computers are mathematically flawless. They are beaten by taking advantage of their inability (for now) to do complex long-term planning.

            Pattern recognition and pure memorization is part of the game... this aids you in tactical play. Bobby Fischer is a great example, he is one of the best prepared players of all time. Strategy is absolutely a huge part of the game. Do I want to lock the board up with a closed board... do I want to have an open board and rely on my tactical abilities. Do I want to complicate the board further because I can out-think my opponent. Can I control this part of the board and attack with success... blah blah. You could study chess strategy for a lifetime.

            Don't worry about losing to chess players who play all the time. For many of them, that is ALL they do... and they damn well better beat you! It's better to enjoy the game for what it is, and not worry about "intelligence" and your ego. You can be a very bad chess player but be brilliant in other things... and vice-versa.

            From time to time, I can beat experts in a long game. And sometimes I can beat masters in a quick game. But I accepted the fact a long time ago that I will never be great at it... I just don't have the natural talent for it. So, I move on and do other things that are more constructive.
            let's not forget a computer beat the world chess championi garry kasparov in 1994...so even if the computer's ways of playing aren't human in nature, the calculation of millions of moves in seconds is possibly more powerful than the human ability to actually think.


            want a hard game? try the game known as GO.


            edit- my dad used to play chess a lot, and i once played him while he was blindfolded AND he spotted me his queen...he beat me. not only did he beat me, he knew exactly what was going on on the board at all times, without seeing it. boggled my mind...

            Comment

            • Rather
              Registered User
              • Nov 2002
              • 757

              #7
              Originally posted by PyRo
              I have a solution. Get one of those chess sets with shotglasses for pieces, by the time you lose you will be to drunk to realise it
              Hmm, sounds interesting, where are they sold...I think I know what kind of games I'm playing in college.

              Comment

              • PyRo
                President Bioloaf inc.
                • Dec 2000
                • 10186

                #8
                Don't know, various stores in a mall by me sell them. No big chains just little gift shops. They go from $25 for a cardboard board with shot glasses that have the piece printed on them to a couple thousand for really nice sets with shaped shot glasses of varying sizes for differant pieces. I think ill pick up the cheap set and the drinking version of monopoly the next time i'm at the mall

                Comment

                • Hexis
                  Green Mag Freak
                  • Sep 2001
                  • 2427

                  #9
                  And the damn program announces it's moves, further taunting you.

                  I'm sure Kasparov could kick my PowerBook's butt. However, I can't.

                  Comment

                  • Sooky
                    too human
                    • Jun 2002
                    • 346

                    #10
                    I used to spend a fair amount of time learning and playing chess. I'm nothing special though; I used to play people on the WorldChessNetwork, and routinely got wasted. However, once I got good enough to beat my girlfriends father, I felt more than satisfied. Maybe its the Russian in me.

                    Comment

                    • Miscue
                      Super Moderator

                      • Oct 2000
                      • 7105

                      #11
                      Re: Re: Re: How to learn humility

                      Originally posted by impostal22



                      want a hard game? try the game known as GO.

                      Go is way harder than chess, agreed. I don't understand that game at all.

                      Comment

                      • Miscue
                        Super Moderator

                        • Oct 2000
                        • 7105

                        #12
                        Re: Re: Re: How to learn humility

                        Originally posted by impostal22


                        let's not forget a computer beat the world chess championi garry kasparov in 1994...so even if the computer's ways of playing aren't human in nature, the calculation of millions of moves in seconds is possibly more powerful than the human ability to actually think.

                        Yes, Kramnik as well. What I meant by beating the computer is being able to win at least one game or even draw, and not necessarily win a match. Eventually they will be unstoppable... and the world's top player will have no chance.

                        Comment

                        • PyRo
                          President Bioloaf inc.
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 10186

                          #13
                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=2554

                          Cheap ones

                          Comment

                          • AFRaven
                            Member
                            • May 2002
                            • 255

                            #14
                            I have actually read through the book Chess For Dummies. In regards to the Deep Blue (Computer) beating Kasparov, there were a few reasons

                            -As mentioned before, comptuers can calculate millions of moves per second.

                            -The major human weakness, fatigue. Computers do not get tired, weary or bored during a 1 or more hour match.

                            There were a few others, but I am too lazy to get the book right now.

                            Comment

                            • impostal22
                              disgruntled...
                              • Apr 2003
                              • 1623

                              #15
                              Originally posted by AFRaven
                              -The major human weakness, fatigue. Computers do not get tired, weary or bored during a 1 or more hour match.
                              kasparov once played 52 games in a row, blindfolded through them all...and won them all...so i REALLY don't think fatigue had anything to do with it.

                              the seriously powerful chess players like bobby fischer (who played over 100 SIMULTANEOUS chess games) are not subject to fatigue, or at least to the little extent you're talking about.

                              edit- i think it was kasparov who did that..i KNOW bobby fischer did that...and well, i KNOW some grandmasters have played that many games in a row..blindfolded. and if this guy was the world champion, what makes you think fatigue has anything to do with anything?

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