Are the poor in America really not that poor?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Emily


When it's taken out yes it's taxed, but there are 401K's that are not pre-taxed. so my point is valid.

The tax is still paid later. Also the 401K is capped by law at 16% of your salary, i.e. earned income. There is also a dollar cap established by law to prevent just what you mentioned.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Rooster
"I think Marx was off base with his "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", but not far off. Being wealthier in North America doesn't necessarily mean you are smarter or work harder, but it does mean that you are benefiting more form the economic system. If you pay a little more (percentage-wise) to the political system that safeguards that economy, I think that's reasonable."

While your system would work great in a utopia, we do not live in one, nor will we ever. Sure a person who makes more can pay more. Thats common sense. Thats why the rich drive in BMWs, and the poor drive in Kias. They can afford to pay more. Now it is obvious what benfit a more expensive car brings, and what more, it that person's own choice whether or not to purchase it. However, the benifit of paying a greater percentage of one's income to the government is not obvious, in fact, it is ludicrus. The government does not protect our economic situation, or economy works in spite of the government's inceasent medling. And whats more, the rich have no choice but to pay a higher percentage.

I never said it was a 'benefit' to pay more to the government. I said that the wealthy enjoy a greater benefit from the way our society is structured, economically and politically. ALL governments interfere in the economies of their countries. In North America, our economies work reasonably well because our governments do relatively little meddling, not "in spite of their incessant meddling". And our governments behave that way not because they are swell guys, or geniuses, but because monied individuals and corporations have considerable influence with our politicians.

On 1DE's original topic:

The sad truth is that although our poor are much better off materially than those in any other country, most of them are relatively worse off than their parents were. The dollars don't go as far as they used to, and over the past two decades, in both our countries, the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer. And the middle class is shrinking.

[Rooster]

"ALL governments interfere in the economies of their countries. In North America, our economies work reasonably well because our governments do relatively little meddling, not "in spite of their incessant meddling". And our governments behave that way not because they are swell guys, or geniuses, but because monied individuals and corporations have considerable influence with our politicians."

This is an unfortunate bit of propoganda. One of the chief reasons for our business cycle always being out of whack is the minimum wage law. Becuase companies can not pay people less in lean times, they are forced to lay people off. They produces less. Their capital is reduced, and we go into a ressesion. (Overly simplified for typing ease). This lag time is what is cuasing the business cycle, amoung other government controls. A free market tends to grow linearly, not in a fluctuating pattern. We have grown used to the patern becuase of the government's interferance. Artificial controls throttle the economy, and keep businesses from growing (or dying) as they should.