Another day off from school, yay (if I were still in high school) :(

[bleachit]

"Absence of organized religion is not Atheism. Schools are not preaching that their is no God, therefore they are not preaching Atheist beliefs. Neither Atheism nor Christianity is being favored in schools, and that's probably the best way to run things."

I was just wondering, when was the last time you were in school? because..... atheism is definately being taught and favored in school, at least the ones I have been in. And teaching evolution is just as good as teaching that there is no god, because according to evolution, there isnt one.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

Absence of organized religion is not Atheism. Schools are not preaching that their is no God, therefore they are not preaching Atheist beliefs. Neither Atheism nor Christianity is being favored in schools, and that's probably the best way to run things. Also, children are allowed to say their own prayers by themselves (and are allowed to bring religious texts to schools), so no one is really restricting their rights. They're just not allowed to make it part of the curriculum, which is how it should be (this falls under the same area as group prayer).

No, not organized, but absence of God is atheism.

Atheism is actually be fostered in schools. I could share my heritage, my sexuality, my sex life, but not my faith in publc schools. That is the problem. Leave character and PC out of the schools all together and you are fine. No one can protest math! The numbers are the numbers!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Restola

Oh I hate you... That little online test said I'm the farthest right on these boards!

Sorry, it was just too easy!

Other than that, there's nothing you've said that I don't agree with. It's the 1% that are ultra-sensitive and want no religion visible anywhere and the 1% that insist that this country is Christian at any price that are really screwing both sides.

The 1 percenters ruin everything. Ask motorcycle enthusiests!

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

actually, christians believe in evoluton, just that god started the whole process. I seriously think people have too much time on their hands to have protest against god. If you don't believe in something, don't believe in it, but don't force it upon us to follow YOUR religion.

[Restola]

Originally posted by bleachit
And teaching evolution is just as good as teaching that there is no god, because according to evolution, there isnt one.

k...

What would you have taught in a science class? Find out what the scientific method is before you reply (or don't, I don't care)

Originally posted by RT pRo AuToMaG
actually, christians believe in evoluton, just that god started the whole process.

Well some seem to. Even if we prove everything beyond any doubt, we'll never fully understand God's role in it all (for those who believe He exists). And I have no problem with that idea. Just don't try to discredit science with faith. They are totally different games.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by bleachit
"Absence of organized religion is not Atheism. Schools are not preaching that their is no God, therefore they are not preaching Atheist beliefs. Neither Atheism nor Christianity is being favored in schools, and that's probably the best way to run things."

I was just wondering, when was the last time you were in school? because..... atheism is definately being taught and favored in school, at least the ones I have been in. And teaching evolution is just as good as teaching that there is no god, because according to evolution, there isnt one.

Teaching evolution is not teaching Atheism. Maybe some Christians believe that in their feverish anti-science craze, but the theory of evolution says nothing about God (for all anyone knows maybe evolution is the way God created man).

And for Atheism being taught in school, I doubt students would be allowed to take Christian seminary classes as class periods.

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
No, not organized, but absence of God is atheism.

Okay, whatever. So you're basically saying any organization that does not allow religious meetings is teaching Atheism?

Atheism is actually be fostered in schools. I could share my heritage, my sexuality, my sex life, but not my faith in publc schools. That is the problem. Leave character and PC out of the schools all together and you are fine. No one can protest math! The numbers are the numbers!

Your heritage, sexuality, and sex life are irrelevant to the matter. I really don't want to get much further into this because it's obvious we both have opinions that will not change. IMO religious beliefs have NO place in a public school's required curriculum.

EDIT: I think a thing here a lot of people don't understand is that religious activity between students is unrestricted. Students are allowed to pray individually or bring religious texts to school. I know in my highschool there are Mormon and Christian seminary courses you can take as a class period. The problem arises when asking religious activities and such should be funded by schools. School funding of a religious activity is absurd, students already have plenty of outlets for religious based activites in school if they would like. Asking for it to be funded by the government is not something that should happen.

[bleachit]

"What would you have taught in a science class? Find out what the scientific method is before you reply (or don't, I don't care)"

umm I have taken plenty of science classes. I know what the scientific method is. I have learned enough science to know that God and science can co exist. you dont need to teach science in an anti god manner.
I love science, I think its great. I definately am not in an anti science craze




as far as Christians believing in evolution.... in Genesis it says "Then God said "lets make people in our own image..." it doesnt say God created monkeys so they can evolve into our own image.... ok, maybe thats a little off topic, but as a Christian, if you dont believe His word, why bother?

[Ov3rmind]

bleachit, he still made people in his own image. Does it really matter if he did it through evolution (we did not come from monkeys BTW. Evolution does not state that)?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
And for Atheism being taught in school, I doubt students would be allowed to take Christian seminary classes as class periods.

Still missing the point. I am not asking to inject religion into the schools. I am saying take all "Character education" and Morals education out and leave it to the parents. That is my job as a father bottom line.

EDIT: I think a thing here a lot of people don't understand is that religious activity between students is unrestricted. Students are allowed to pray individually or bring religious texts to school. I know in my highschool there are Mormon and Christian seminary courses you can take as a class period. The problem arises when asking religious activities and such should be funded by schools. School funding of a religious activity is absurd, students already have plenty of outlets for religious based activites in school if they would like. Asking for it to be funded by the government is not something that should happen.

I am not asking anyone to fund religious groups. However if you are going to fund Gay and Lesbian Student Groups, shouldn't you fund christian groups as well? Better yet, fund neither and there is no problem eh? Let them both go out and raise their own funds with car washes, coin drops, etc......

In public schools in MD where I was raised, a student could not read from the bible on his turn to read day in the 2nd grade, but could read "Why Joey has 2 mommies." That is my problem. Equal protection under the law works both ways. If one works, so does the other. You can't have it both ways. You can not teach a child morals that are PC approved and not allow them to see the other side of the coin. It is an education, not brain washing!

This is why I like the new French law barring ALL symbols of religion from their schools: Muslim, Jewish, and Christian alike. Leave it out, teach the fundamentals (not fundamentalism) and let the parents teach religion and morals.

[bleachit]

"bleachit, he still made people in his own image. Does it really matter if he did it through evolution (we did not come from monkeys BTW. Evolution does not state that)?"

ok, I am really not trying to cause problems, but later on in Genesis it says that God formed Adam from the dust of the Earth... still no evolution there, and then He breathed the breath of life into him.


edited because apparantly I only make sense to myself

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
bleachit, he still made people in his own image. Does it really matter if he did it through evolution (we did not come from monkeys BTW. Evolution does not state that)?

I don't know about that. CollegeBoy is a monkey, so mayne there is something to this evolution business after all? Or is he just a trained chimp?

[Restola]

Originally posted by bleachit
ok, I am really not trying to cause problems, but later on in Genesis it says that God formed Adam from the dust of the Earth... still no evolution there, and then He breathed the breath of life into him.

You didn't answer my question. Do you want that taught in a science class?

(we may get locked no matter what, lets just stay civil and discuss this while we can)

1stDE, I agree with everything you've said once again. Keep everything out. Teach the kids the basics.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by bleachit
ok, I am really not trying to cause problems, but later on in Genesis it says that God formed Adam from the dust of the Earth... still no evolution there, and then He breathed the breath of life into him.

A lot of the stuff in the Bible is not meant to be taken word for word or literally. I think a lot of people over the years have taken metaphors and anologies to be fact.

Still missing the point. I am not asking to inject religion into the schools. I am saying take all "Character education" and Morals education out and leave it to the parents. That is my job as a father bottom line.

I agree totally with you on that.

I am not asking anyone to fund religious groups. However if you are going to fund Gay and Lesbian Student Groups, shouldn't you fund christian groups as well? Better yet, fund neither and there is no problem eh? Let them both go out and raise their own funds with car washes, coin drops, etc......

Actually, I'm against the funding of clubs regarding sexual orientation. IMO, it is very much the same animal as a religious clubs.

In public schools in MD where I was raised, a student could not read from the bible on his turn to read day in the 2nd grade, but could read "Why Joey has 2 mommies." That is my problem. Equal protection under the law works both ways. If one works, so does the other. You can't have it both ways. You can not teach a child morals that are PC approved and not allow them to see the other side of the coin. It is an education, not brain washing!

That's odd, because that's not the case where I live. It is okay for students to read from religious texts aloud here (understand that they are not teaching it, but more for examples during an English or a history class. Or maybe one of those utterly pointless times when a student has to share something about themselves).

This is why I like the new French law barring ALL symbols of religion from their schools: Muslim, Jewish, and Christian alike. Leave it out, teach the fundamentals (not fundamentalism) and let the parents teach religion and morals.

I agree. it seems that we are just disagreeing on some small technicalities.

[bleachit]

Originally posted by bleachit

I have learned enough science to know that God and science can co exist. you dont need to teach science in an anti god manner.

you dont need to teach evolution as FACT cuz it isnt. most of the people I have had as teachers teach it as fact. and often with an anti god tone. If you want to teach science you can, just leave out the "oh, there is a ton of evidence proving that evolution is fact and that we all evolved from other forms of life." that part is not needed.

[Restola]

Originally posted by bleachit
you dont need to teach evolution as FACT cuz it isnt.

Yeah...

We all know theories aren't facts. Any student with a dictionary can prove that for himself.

And isn't evidence an important part of science? (I'll get some conspiracy theorist replies to this one).