Ahnold for president! who didn't see this coming?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22
The United Nations now has the responsibility to intervene and prevent any further violation of international law by providing sanctuary to the legal Secretary of the Ba'athst Party and legal President of Iraq: Saddam Hussein, and to further demand that U.S. and British troops stop its illegal war against Iraq and to demand that they, as belligerents in this conflict, immediately withdraw from the sovereign territory of Iraq.

You really have a reading comprehension problem don't you?

First off, you feel that the UN should give Saddam sanctuary? That is just plain sick!

Second, READ THIS LINK!!!! Security Council resolution 1441 is what Bush used to justify the invasion. It was passed unanimously and thus the invasion was legal no matter how you fell about it!

[aaron_mag]

Ummmmmm the title of this thread says something about Ahnold. As far as I know is governor of California - not Iraq...am I missing something?

I suppose the title should be: This thread will be hijacked into an Iraq thread! who didn't see this coming?

Also I flew to Sacramento recently and was very disappointed. I did not see Arnold once on my trip!

[impostal22]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


You really have a reading comprehension problem don't you?

First off, you feel that the UN should give Saddam sanctuary? That is just plain sick!

Second, READ THIS LINK!!!! Security Council resolution 1441 is what Bush used to justify the invasion. It was passed unanimously and thus the invasion was legal no matter how you fell about it!

no i don't think saddam should be given sanctuary, i was posting the text from the link i gave.

sure let's talk about 1441

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/02110803.htm

why don't you go there and refresh your memory about the implications of 1441 and come back to me?

there's nothing about invasion there. it's all about giving inspectors basically full access to everything in iraq. it can be somehow be spun (as all politicians do spin an issue in their favor, like it or not) i'm sure, to justify the invasion of iraq, but if you'll read that...you'll know that it was just political spin.

one clause states that if iraq doesn't comply with the un's demands, then military action is perfectly legal. i guess the way bush spun it was that back in the day he didn't comply, so that justifies invasion. the truth is, however, that he FULLY complied in 2003. and by invading under full iraqi compliance, it was illegal.

[impostal22]

BUMP, i wanna know what you have to say 1de.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22

no i don't think saddam should be given sanctuary, i was posting the text from the link i gave.

So you don't support your own link that you posted as proof of your point. Very interesting!

there's nothing about invasion there. it's all about giving inspectors basically full access to everything in iraq. it can be somehow be spun (as all politicians do spin an issue in their favor, like it or not) i'm sure, to justify the invasion of iraq, but if you'll read that...you'll know that it was just political spin.

one clause states that if iraq doesn't comply with the un's demands, then military action is perfectly legal. i guess the way bush spun it was that back in the day he didn't comply, so that justifies invasion. the truth is, however, that he FULLY complied in 2003. and by invading under full iraqi compliance, it was illegal. [/QUOTE]

How do you feel that Saddam was in full compliance? He was playing the same cat and mouse game he played for Clinton's entire term. He was not in compliance then nor now. THe inspectors stated that all along.

So it allows military action, but doesn't spell out invasion. What should he have expected, more Clinton cruise missles in the keister?

1441 threatened severe repercussions. I think an invasion qualifies!

[impostal22]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

So you don't support your own link that you posted as proof of your point. Very interesting!

How do you feel that Saddam was in full compliance? He was playing the same cat and mouse game he played for Clinton's entire term. He was not in compliance then nor now. THe inspectors stated that all along.

So it allows military action, but doesn't spell out invasion. What should he have expected, more Clinton cruise missles in the keister?

1441 threatened severe repercussions. I think an invasion qualifies!

sigh..i had a very lengthy response and then i accidentally closed the friggin window...

i'll try to sum it up...

i disagree with the guy's opinion. i didn't link you for the guy's opinion. i linked you for the quotes from UN charters, etc.

basically, saddam did not comply under the clinton administration. there are some interesting facts about that whole situation, but they're more or less irrelevant.

under the bush administration, however, saddam was very compliant. he understood the threat he faced, and did everything the UN demanded. this includes allowing UN inspectors anywhere they want to go, and releasing a full dossier of weapons inventory. bush just didn't feel like waiting around for the inspectors to find something. he was also probably pressured by the fact that hans blix (the head un inspector) publicly stated that he did not expect to find anything.

1441 says that military action (such as the invasion) is legal iff (if and only if) saddam does not comply. saddam did comply. the invasion was therefore illegal. the fact that he did not comply under the clinton administration is, again, irrelevant in this case. the united states became a real hypocrite when it violated international law that it not only helped create, but expects other countries to obey. it sets a precedence, allowing any UN country to ignore international law and invade against the UN's wishes. this is a NASTY precedent to set.

some will argue that "oh, the UN is an outdated organization that just needs to be broken up anyway." it's wonderful that you think that, but as long as we as a country agree to be a part of the UN, and expect other countries to listen to the UN, we cannot blatantly say one thing and do another. if a nation, such as the united states, proposes to enforce the policy of 1441, that's wonderful. but as a member of the UN, and as a responsible superpower, it needs to respect the laws it helps create, and only invade once it has the approval of the UN. the UN did NOT approve the invasion, but we ignored the disapproval. again, a very nasty precedent to be setting.

and don't give the "we're a superpower, we don't need anyone's permission" argument, either. too many weak minded individuals use it, because it is just the mindset of a bully. as the most powerful country in the world, we have a responsibility to other countries to not only uphold but ALSO obey the laws and agreements we establish. that's the thing most people don't get, that just because we're the richest nation doesn't mean we're the one that is correct.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by impostal22
and don't give the "we're a superpower, we don't need anyone's permission" argument, either. too many weak minded individuals use it, because it is just the mindset of a bully. as the most powerful country in the world, we have a responsibility to other countries to not only uphold but ALSO obey the laws and agreements we establish. that's the thing most people don't get, that just because we're the richest nation doesn't mean we're the one that is correct.

Very well put. Anyone who disagrees should watch Fog of War.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/fogofwar/

You will find it very educational. It is all about acting Unilaterally.......

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22
basically, saddam did not comply under the clinton administration. there are some interesting facts about that whole situation, but they're more or less irrelevant.

under the bush administration, however, saddam was very compliant. he understood the threat he faced, and did everything the UN demanded. this includes allowing UN inspectors anywhere they want to go, and releasing a full dossier of weapons inventory. bush just didn't feel like waiting around for the inspectors to find something. he was also probably pressured by the fact that hans blix (the head un inspector) publicly stated that he did not expect to find anything.

1441 says that military action (such as the invasion) is legal iff (if and only if) saddam does not comply. saddam did comply. the invasion was therefore illegal. the fact that he did not comply under the clinton administration is, again, irrelevant in this case. the united states became a real hypocrite when it violated international law that it not only helped create, but expects other countries to obey. it sets a precedence, allowing any UN country to ignore international law and invade against the UN's wishes. this is a NASTY precedent to set.

Saddam was not in compliance! That is why Bush went back for the second resolution! It was vetoed by the French and Russians not because Saddam was in compliance, but because they wanted to give him more time to become compliant! So you are wrong!

He gave have completed dossiers, moved things around, delayed and interfered with inspectors, so he DID NOT COMPLY with 1441!

[impostal22]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Saddam was not in compliance! That is why Bush went back for the second resolution! It was vetoed by the French and Russians not because Saddam was in compliance, but because they wanted to give him more time to become compliant! So you are wrong!

He gave have completed dossiers, moved things around, delayed and interfered with inspectors, so he DID NOT COMPLY with 1441!

ok 1de, whatever you say. saddam didn't comply

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22


ok 1de, whatever you say. saddam didn't comply

Well maybe you should email your questions to the New Iraqi Government. They could ask Saddam if he was compliant at his trial!

[impostal22]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Well maybe you should email your questions to the New Iraqi Government. They could ask Saddam if he was compliant at his trial!

lol i just might do that.

[ERut]

Originally posted by shartley

I think I'll marry my paintball gun...