Bush does it again....

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
But, of the three snippets I quoted, I would like to see more about how they defined and tabulated "overhead".

So would I. Where do your figures come from? Also, are they comprehensive? Remember figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

To really compare overhead, you need the data or report. For instance, th US figures may include administration as part of overhead while the Canadian number does not as they are gov't employees. It is tought to compare these figures without more data.

[Rooster]

"Secondly, the study was comparing the mostly PRIVATE US system with the mostly PUBLIC Canadian system.

It's pure private business that's generating much of the bureaucratic overhead between hospitals, HMOs, and insurers."

So called private insurance companies and health care systems are not private at all. They are inidated with government controls and regulations, all creating hoops that they must jump through to provide services. Now I know if you are looking at the world through liberal colored glasses that every government would be as effecient as a business. But its not. Thats reality.

Now I know this is going to be hard for the small liberal mind to understand, but big government doesn't work. Its been proven not to work over, and over, and over again. Government involvement only slows things down and makes them more expensive. Government health care is a bad idea now, next year, and for eternity. Just becuase you want a free ride becuase your work ethic is too lousy to provide for yourself, doen't mean everyone else is so backwards.


"Or when the minimum wage job that barely pays for your subsistence maims you or gives you an horrible disease because of exposure to noxious chemicals or bad working conditions, you should just suck it up because you somehow deserved it."

Heres an idea, don't stick your hand in the big roller next time.

[1stdeadeye]

Here is a great story for you. Kerry is being endorsed by the anti semetic PM of Malaysia. He was also endorsed by the new Spanish PM saying America should follow Spains lead! Okay I don't think we will run away from terrorists here EVER!!!!

LINK

[mcveighr]

Good job Rooster, turning to insulting him because he knows what he's talking about. Real mature.

And not being a conservative doesn't make you a "liberal".

[Southpaw]

How many new cutting edge drugs or surgery practices has Canada come up with in the last few years. I also think canada buys drugs from sources that do not meet the FDA ( food and drug administration) standards that helps a bit too with their price. Oh and how many odd conjoined twins from 3rd world do you seperate for free in Canada?

[mcveighr]

Please clairify what the hell you were talking about there Southpaw.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Rooster
Just becuase you want a free ride becuase your work ethic is too lousy to provide for yourself, doen't mean everyone else is so backwards.

Yeah...we all can't provide for ourselves. Nevermind the fact that we have insurance and are covered.

So wait? If we have health insurance...why do we worry about those who don't? Well let me see if your small brain can understand these two concepts:

1) Life is constantly in flux. One day you are fine...making money. Saving for a rainy day. The next day things can change. You CAN lose your job. Unforeseen changes can happen to you. So you start thinking, "Before I write off the 'have nots' I should consider that I could be one of them one day. Even the greeks knew this. Ever read Herodotus' story on the King of Lydia named Croessus?

2) It is actually HUMANE to give a darn about your neighbor. To care if they find out they have cancer. To care if the unforeseen expenses will destroy his family and the future of his children. So because we argue for one side...don't assume that we want a free handout.

[mcveighr]

2) It is actually HUMANE to give a darn about your neighbor. To care if they find out they have cancer. To care if the unforeseen expenses will destroy his family and the future of his children. So because we argue for one side...don't assume that we want a free handout.

Some people believe that this is what separates us from the animals.

[Southpaw]

I fixed my post look up.

Why would you need a few billion $ more if it is such a good deal?

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/atrisk.html

Why would your doctors leave like rats from a sinking ship?

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/hea/2003/pd101703b.html

Talk about waiting for the problem to go away

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/surgeryabroad.html

Why stop at people animals are entitled too.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/pets.html

[Southpaw]

The best reason against socialized medicine http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hreadid=129911

[Albinonewt]

Just wait until we pass the bill that allows re-importation of Canadian drugs!

I can't wait. Once that is passed one of two things will happen.

Canadian Drug prices will rise to meet American ones
There won't be any more drugs in Canada.

hahahahahahahahahaha



And the Canadian health care is great, so long as you don't mind waiting 2 months for that life saving procedure you need in 24 hours.

[Rooster]

"2) It is actually HUMANE to give a darn about your neighbor. To care if they find out they have cancer. To care if the unforeseen expenses will destroy his family and the future of his children. So because we argue for one side...don't assume that we want a free handout."

Charity is perfectly acceptable. I do work for Christmas in April, rebuilding houses for the elderly. However government charity is not. Charity should be a personal choice, not some wealth redistribution plan undertaken by the government.

"Before I write off the 'have nots' I should consider that I could be one of them one day."

I am perfectly willing to take full responsibility for anything that happens to me. That is what seperates me from the animals. If I lose my job tomorrow and contract brain cancer next week, I will die. That is the way things go. Its no one else's problem. I expect no less from anyone else.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Rooster
"Before I write off the 'have nots' I should consider that I could be one of them one day."

I am perfectly willing to take full responsibility for anything that happens to me. That is what seperates me from the animals. If I lose my job tomorrow and contract brain cancer next week, I will die. That is the way things go. Its no one else's problem. I expect no less from anyone else.

[Rooster]

I'm not saying that if a relative or a church group or someone wanted to help me, I wouldn't take it. What I'm saying is that I'll never depend on the government for that assistance, becuase its not the government's job to keep me alive.

My beleifs about who should and shouldn't have children aside, children shouldn't pay the price for poor decisions by their parents. In a perfect world, no person would have children they can not provide for. Unfortunately too many have grown up in a society where the government will pay you for mismanaging your life.

The government needs to stay out of charity, and charity needs to stay out of the government's programs.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Rooster
[BCharity is perfectly acceptable. I do work for Christmas in April, rebuilding houses for the elderly. However government charity is not. Charity should be a personal choice, not some wealth redistribution plan undertaken by the government.[/B]

Rooster, you've also meantioned church involvement a number of times. I really find this kind of ironic.

Churches, and most religions, are really a form of socialism. And the bible is quite clear in a number of places that those with riches should give some away to the less fortunate so that they do not have too much and the less fortunate do not have too little. They collect money and organise local labour to help the needy. Individual Church groups are often not enough to support certain projects, so they organise amongst themselves.

All very much the exact same thing as government support of the less needy. Only that churches have the advantage of being more lenient with the payment of their taxes (tith or donation), but government has the advantage of a larger base.

Sometimes the hatred of government programs is really a form of racism. It's fine if good respectable white members of the church get help, but let's not help them OTHERS.