60s or 70s anti anti war protest song

[gamarada717]

You should go to EB games or something and see if they still have any of the Battlefield Vietnam soundtracks. I got mine for free, before I even bought the game. Lots of good songs in there, you might be able to find what you're looking for.

[Rooster]

First, the NVA was not a civilian force. It was a well equiped, Chinese supported force with every bit of the weaponry and trained personnel the US had access to. We were not fighting people with pitch-forks, in most cases anyways. Second, there were two anti-war camps. One was the ultra-liberal, fruit-loop camp that protests every war no matter how wrong or ignorant they are. The second was concerned citizens that were against the way the war was being fought, not against the war, or the act of war, or anything like that.

As far as who owns the land and what not is not only debatable, but highly irrelevant. The war was to prevent communist expansion into an government who was friendly. Of course a popular war that based on sound principles doesn't sell newspapers, but an evil, unpopular war of aggression against people throwing sticks does.

[Thordic]

Originally posted by Rooster
First, the NVA was not a civilian force. It was a well equiped, Chinese supported force with every bit of the weaponry and trained personnel the US had access to.

Are you just dumb or do you not read what you are replying to? I said the peasants used the Communists to arm themselves. The NVA was well-trained by the Chinese, but it was still comprised of peasants. You don't see many land-owners signing up to get shot.


Second, there were two anti-war camps. One was the ultra-liberal, fruit-loop camp that protests every war no matter how wrong or ignorant they are. The second was concerned citizens that were against the way the war was being fought, not against the war, or the act of war, or anything like that. As far as who owns the land and what not is not only debatable, but highly irrelevant. The war was to prevent communist expansion into an government who was friendly.

I'd partially agree, but not entirely. Yes, there were people who are against the war for no reason other than the fact it was a war. You'll have these people anytime theres a war. They don't know anything, but they still protest. And you are right, some people supported the concept of the war, but were against the means. But you leave out the possibility of people who were both informed, intelligent, and STILL against the war. There was no purpose to this war. The French caused a messy situation, but this could have been solved diplomatically in the early 60s before Communism was even an issue by forcing the Vietnamese aristocrisy (who lived, surprise surprise, mainly in the south) to be less oppressive of the peasant class. Then the peasant class would have had no reason to support Ho Chi Minh and there would have been no uprising. The NVA wasn't fighting a political war, they were fighting a revolutionary war. If you look at the roots of the war, it started off not too differently from our revolutionary war. People just wanted freedom. But the leadership (Ho Chi Minh) was Communist, and this swayed the whole conflict into a huge political disaster. The US was blinded by the Cold War and the term "Communists" threw us into a frenzy. Had we acted intelligently, we would have realized this was wasn't ours and wasn't necessary. Who owned the land was NOT irrelevant, it provided the motivation for the NVA soldiers to fight. Without the popular support of the army, the Vietnamese communist movement would have died a quick death.

Of course a popular war that based on sound principles doesn't sell newspapers, but an evil, unpopular war of aggression against people throwing sticks does.

Well when you find some sound principles, you let me know. The war started off based on bad decisions on our part. By the end we CREATED the war we had imagined all along. By killing and killing, we turned farmers who just wanted their own land into communists who hated America and what we stood for.

[Rooster]

"The French caused a messy situation, but this could have been solved diplomatically in the early 60s before Communism was even an issue by forcing the Vietnamese aristocrisy (who lived, surprise surprise, mainly in the south) to be less oppressive of the peasant class. Then the peasant class would have had no reason to support Ho Chi Minh and there would have been no uprising."

Thats alot of coulda shoulda woulda. Hindsight being 20/20 of course that makes sense. It didn't make sense at the time. It was communist expansion into a friendly government. That is why the war needed to be fought. The decision to go to war was the correct one. Not bombing the capital of North Vietnam into dust was the wrong one. True a good bombing wouldn't have changed the course of the war, but it sure would have made those ten years alot different.

Pleanty of farm boys join the US army. It doesn't make it a peasant force. The NVA was regular army. They wern't armed peasants, they were a military. While dealing with the VC was a big problem, the larger concern was the NVA opperating almost freely out of Cambodia.

[Thordic]

I feel like Im bouncing a beach ball of a quadrapeligic's head.

What communists? There is a communist party in the US right now, should we go to war with ourselves? No, of course not, they don't have popular support. Well, I tell ya what, the communist party in Vietnam wouldn't have had much popular support either if it wasn't for the actions of the US and France and our allies.

And yes, plenty of farm boy join the US Army. Because they believe in our cause and country. But no country can fight a war without an army. If the troops are against the war, the war will generally not be won. (Look at us in the late stages of Vietnam). The NVA had so many troops because we gave them a REASON to fight. Had we not given them a reason to fight, any army the Communists could have raised would not have been very formidable.

I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with you on a daily basis, I do. I wasn't aware they made entire heads out of concrete.

[Rooster]

You seem to think that the NVA is the invention of western intervention. This is not the case, and is purely revisionist history. Communism was spreading like wildfire in southeast asia becuase of the chinese, for the same reason it spread in china, grass roots propaganda coming from people who couldn't see their own nose despite their face. A revolutionary army would have been formed to fight the legitimate government of vietnam with or without western intervention.

People will fight without a reason. They will kill without a reason. They will do it becuase its the very nature of human existance. People will fight becuase they seek to seperate themselves from those they view as different. Socio-politics has far less to do with it than the attitude of us versus them. The reason the war in vietnam could not be won had nothing to do with troops or their willingness to fight. It had nothing to do with popular support. The faluire in Vietnam was due to the inability for the American government to commit the reasources and fire power to finish the job.

I do not know where you got your information about the NVA but its is woefully inaccurate and saddly mistaken.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by Rooster
...

People will fight without a reason. They will kill without a reason. They will do it becuase its the very nature of human existance. People will fight becuase they seek to seperate themselves from those they view as different. Socio-politics has far less to do with it than the attitude of us versus them.

SOME people will fight without a reason, but not many. And very few people will kill, even with a reason, unless their own life is in immediate danger. Studies in WW2 showed that less than half of soldiers fired their rifles in combat, and some who did admitted to shooting in the air because they didn't want to kill.

Originally posted by Rooster
...
The reason the war in vietnam could not be won had nothing to do with troops or their willingness to fight. It had nothing to do with popular support. The faluire in Vietnam was due to the inability for the American government to commit the reasources and fire power to finish the job.

...

You are partly right, in that the loss in Vietnam was not due to any failing of the soldiers. But you are probably mistaken in thinking that more money or firepower was all that was needed. Firepower can win battles (like Khe Sanh), but it can't win a war when the enemy refuses to be defeated. Over a million Vietnamese died in the war, versus 58,000 Americans. The side that won was the one who wanted to keep fighting. The USA would have had to have been willing to kill so many Vietnamese that it was simply impossible to continue the war, and that would have only delayed the matter by a decade, until their vengeful orphans grew up.

Also, Rooster it is misleading to say that the NVA had access to all the same military tech the USA did. They did not have 1/10th the airpower or naval support, or any of the chemicals or high-tech sensors. Not even all teh same infantry weapons - no grenade launchers, or disposable rockets. They had MBTs and aircraft but did not dare to use them until 1975.

[devildog]

i really want a patriotic type song of the time that puts down the protests

youre a good man

as far as finding a song about a movement, try bloody sunday by U2. im not sure if the song came out in the 70's, but "Bloody Sunday" was in the 70's. just a thought.

p.s.
this thread got waaaaay off topic.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Off topic... oh yeah. oops.

I just thought of an anti-protest song:
"Okie from Muskogee", by Merle Haggard

opening verse:

We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee;
We don't take our trips on LSD
We don't burn our draft cards down on Main Street;
We like livin' right, and bein' free.

[Konigballer]

Rooster, I would say Vietnam had very little popular support from young people after 1968. People were'nt volunteering to go to Nam in droves by then, thats why we drafted people. You dont draft volunteering combatants, you draft kids who have got enough sense not to volunteer, but dont have the money to get into college or the National Guard.

The large majority of the pro war movement was made up of people who were'nt gonna' be out in the bush getting shot at.

[Barfly]

Actually at one point the French wanted us to nuke north Vietnam, but we decided against it, good thing. One thing you have to look at is how many americans died over there somewhere around 50,000 that is a lot, I guarantee that if we lost even half of that in Iraq, that it would probably be even less popular than Vietnam. Another thing is that we won all the battles, but lost the war, because we did not fight a total war, but just a policing action. Hell we had to get congress's approval, before we could bomb targets, well guess what 5 days later the target isn't going to be there anymore. We had a piss poor bombing campaign that didn't even get into destroying the norths supply chains until the end of the war. Some people still think that we needed to be over there, just ask my roomates dad who is a retired Colonel in the Army. It all just comes down to your perception of the war, also a lot of the hippies were ******** they would spit on vietnam vets in streets and do other derrogative things to them.

[Konigballer]

very true...my dad and two uncles fought in Vietnam annd I'm glad they did'nt die in a pointless war, but I do hate dirty hippies...those people would'nt pick up a gun and fight even if the russian army was coming down the street.

[deadeye9]

"Ballad of the Green Berets", by Sgt. Barry Saddler.

"Are You a Boy, or Are You a Girl?", by The Barbarians, more of an anti-hippie movement song.

[deadeye9]

"Revolution", by the Beatles.

[Muzikman]

"The Fightin' Side of Me" by Merle Haggard is probably one of the most well known Pro-American songs released during the Viatnam war.

Edit: Also, it seems that no one has actually suggested a real "Pro-American" "pro-Vietnam" song which is what you are looking for. I can assume why is that there are not many.