Michael Moore Wins in Cannes

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Yeah when we invaded Germany and Japan, we threw candy bars at them till they surrendered.

Id like to hear a WWII vet's thoughts on your point of view

I'm not talking about the invasion, I'm talking about the rebuilding, Japan in particular.

[taylor492]

I'm not talking about the invasion, I'm talking about the rebuilding, Japan in particular.

You think the soldiers in Iraq wouldn't be using the same tactics if they weren't being shot at on a daily basis?

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

You think the soldiers in Iraq wouldn't be using the same tactics if they weren't being shot at on a daily basis?

exactly what I'm saying Iraq is a totally different situation, and just because we were able to rebuild Japan and Germany that holds no grounds in regards to Iraq

What?

We firebombed and destroyed Japan! For God Sakes, we nuked them! The difference is that we did not utterly destroy Iraq first.

We killed more with the firebombing of Dresden than the first nuke did! Germany was in utter ruins.

I guess you are right. To make it similar I propose we utterly destroy Iraq first and then rebuild it.

once again not talking about invasion, but rebuilding.

[taylor492]

exactly what I'm saying Iraq is a totally different situation, and just because we were able to rebuild Japan and Germany that holds no grounds in regards to Iraq



once again not talking about invasion, but rebuilding.

Ok explain to me why Iraq is different.

I went back and looked at your posts and I realized you are not even making a point. Not to say you dont have one.

My point is:
Iraq could be well on its way to a free and peaceful country except for the extremists who want their local fat guy to rule. So they think the best way for that to happen is to fight who ever is in control...the US.

I'm not entirely sure about post WWII Japan but i think things weren't nearly as violent.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Ok explain to me why Iraq is different.

I went back and looked at your posts and I realized you are not even making a point. Not to say you dont have one.

My point is:
Iraq could be well on its way to a free and peaceful country except for the extremists who want their local fat guy to rule. So they think the best way for that to happen is to fight who ever is in control...the US.

I'm not entirely sure about post WWII Japan but i think things weren't nearly as violent.

My point is that just because Germany turned out alright, doesn't mean that Iraq is based on the same reason you stated. It just seems some of the things I said got misconstrued.

[taylor492]

My point is that just because Germany turned out alright, doesn't mean that Iraq is based on the same reason you stated. It just seems some of the things I said got misconstrued.

And Japan we

You have a point. But you have to admit that we'd be much closer to our goal for Iraq if not for all the violence.

[FactsOfLife]

Actually I'm completely serious, here is the info on the Japanese emperor http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2135.html

And now why don't I just type a little passage that I have from my history book

The World Since 1945

They (Japan) appreciated the site of U.S. GIs brandishing, not rifles, but chocolate bars and chewing gum. Even more important for securing the active support of the Japanese was the decision by the U.S. authorities to retain the emperor on the throne rather than try him as a war criminal, as many in the US had demanded. INdeed, one important reason why the Japanese were so docile and cooperative with the US occupation forces was that their emperor, whom they were in the habit of dutifully obewying, had implored them to be cooperative.

So in short, I'm completely serious and have the information to back up my statements.

You're talking about Post War Japan and Current Iraq as if they were the same?

Are you nuts?

[-Carnifex-]

We went to vietnam to stop communism.

What sort of gov't is South Vietnam? Exactly.

We didn't leave it as a mess. If it's a mess now it has nothing to do with our intervention.

[shartley]

[1stdeadeye]

We went to vietnam to stop communism.

What sort of gov't is South Vietnam? Exactly.

We didn't leave it as a mess. If it's a mess now it has nothing to do with our intervention.

Actually we originally went into Vietnam to save the French. (Stupid French again! *Shaekes Fist*) Can you say Dien Bien Phu?

[taylor492]

Well back on the original subject.

I saw on the news today that Micheal Moore claims to have a video tape showing him interviewing Nick Berg. But he wont release it to the public, he's only dealing with the family.

Sounds fishy if you ask me.

Why would he announce that he has it but wont release it?

[aaron_mag]

Vietnam certainly isn't a good measure of U.S. rebuilding. We 'lost' that war and got kicked out. S Korea would be a better example. I ask you if you'd rather live in S Korea or Vietnam?

But this thread is going off the deep end.

I'm not arguing about whether the U.S. is 'good' or 'evil'. We're a country with interests to protect like any other. The debate is whether those interests would have been better served by focusing on Afghanistan (which was harboring OBL) rather than transfering our focus to Iraq. I think we have only 3000 or so troops in Afghanistan versus over 100,000 in Iraq.

As for Facts WMD proof...not even Fox has had a 'breaking news, WMD found!!!!' story...

[SlartyBartFast]

We went to vietnam to stop communism.

What sort of gov't is South Vietnam? Exactly.

We didn't leave it as a mess. If it's a mess now it has nothing to do with our intervention.

South Vietnam?!?

That's Korea.

Didn't save anything in the retreat from Vietnam...

[Hasty8]

i thought bowling for columbine was really good. Moore says what is not going to be accepted by many people. i respect him for that, he says what we all know but do not want to say.

Machina, you need to do a bit of research on Moore's use of creative film editing and outright lying.

Let's look at the first scene called "Michael Goes to the bank". How many days do you think that scene covers? One day, two days? A week? In fact, that scene was shot over 6 WEEKS!! The reason it looks like it took place in a single day is because Moore always dressed the same when he went to the bank.

For those who do not know, a Michigan bank was offering a "free rifle" if you opened a cd account with that bank of at least 1000 dollars. The truth was that the rifle was not free at all. That rifle represented the interest the certificate holder would have received in monthly payments over the one year life of the CD but instead they received that interest in one lump sum in the form of the rifle.

What the scene does not also show is how Moore was gushing while in the bank about how he was an avid hunter and how he though this was agreat idea. The scene did not also show him having to submit to a fingerprinting, background check and other lengthy procedures required to legally own a firearm.

I do not like Moore for his opinion. He is certainly entitled to it. What I am disgusted with was how he called his movie a "documentary" and yet went to great lengths to lie to the audience in order that they walk away from the movie with a completely wrong image of what really happened.

Take the scene where Moore slams the NRA for having their Annual Membership meeting in Denver right after the Columbine shooting.

Unfortunately for Moore the law and truth are greatly against him in this case yet he chose to blatantly lie and create the most egregious erros in his editing.

First, the legal aspect. The NRA was founded in NY and according to NY State law any membership meeting venue cannot be changed without notice and that notice must be given no less that 11 days prior to the originally scheduled meeting date. The attacks at Columbine occured 10 days before the meeting.

Second, the truth. The NRA meetings typicall last 5 days. I know this because I am a card-carrying member of the NRA. The Denver meeting was shortened to two days and every activity except the general membership meeting, which is required by NYS law, was cancelled. Also, the paper work required for the rental of the facilities, the arrangement of travel deals and all that were in the works for about a year and a half prior to the Columbine school shootings and none ever said a peep then.

Finally, the most disgusting evidence of Moore's total desire to simply manipulate and not educate.

We have one scene where Charlton Heston is addressing the NRA membership in Denver, discussing a letter that he received from the mayor of Denver. In this shot he is wearing a gray/brown suit. There is a very rough edit and it flashes to Charlton, now in a blue suit, holding an American Revolutionary war rifle over his head and saying "From my cold dead hands" and then it cuts back to the Denver membership meeting.

Charlton received that rifle over a year and a half, almost two years after, the Denver meetings at his appreciation dinner.

Moore is also as guilty of profiting from the Columbine incident as anyone else that he slams. BFC has so far raking in over 25 million I believe and he has not donated a single penny to any anti-gun groups nor has he given any money to help the families effected by Columbine.

Now, I'm not saying that he has too do those things but to yell wolf about profiteering and then to do the exact same thing is just a wee bit hypocritical.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

You're talking about Post War Japan and Current Iraq as if they were the same?

Are you nuts?

NO! I said they were complete opposites