Revisional History?

[Hasty8]

It is the same thing. You did attack him as uncaring. As for rampant stupidity, I know history and you do not. I know that Reagan served from January of 1981 to January of 1989. Not 80 to 87 as you stated.

I attacked him as being uncaring because he was.

As for pure and undiluted ignoracy I must once again bow to you. I'll try to explain and this time I will use small words so that you will hopefully understand.

1978 - First cases of GRID diagnosed in America and Sweden. These cases were predominatly homosexual cases. However, during the same year in Tanzania and Haiti the exact same disease is found among the heterosexual population.

1982 - GRID becomes AIDS and the current US death toll is estimated to be over 600. The CDC releases a report that the disease is spread through blood.

1983 - CDC warns national blood banks of possible contamination of stocks. Neither the executive nor the legislative branch takes any action to ensure public saftey after this announcement.

1984 - Opus BBS is released with 100% of it's proceeds to go directly to research funding for AIDS. This is the only source of additional funding at the time.

1985 - FDA approves the first HIV antibody test. Reagan finally speaks the word AIDS when questions about the funding his administration is providing, a paltry 100 million. When the reporter comments that the top US scientist working on AIDS earlier said that the money was not nearly enough to do the job right Reagan brushed him aside. Note that the budget given to the DOD in the same year was over 330 billion so Reagan could buy his shiny new toys. Death tolls to date are 6.972 including Rock Hudson.

1986 - Reagan finally allows Koop to release a public awareness statement about AIDS with the death toll hovering around 13,000 (the death toll doubled in a year folks). The statement called for sex education. It mentioned nothing about the ability to spread the disease through drug needle use, which is far more wide spread then to guys bumping uglies.

1990 - Death toll is now 31,418 and Reagan finally does a public awareness spot on AIDS. Of course, he is no longer in office and his significane is greatly reduced.

My point is this Eye. Had Reagan done his duty to all his constituents and put his rather archaic religious views aside perhaps the spread of AIDS could have been greatly slowed if not entirely halted.

Better technolgy and understanding of disease.

That's your excuse for it Reagan's inaction?

Typical and a lie. AIDS/GRID was known of well into Reagan's first term and he didn't do anything about it until half way through his second. How blind could you possibly be?

AIDS is still not understood today. The President should have done what? He is not a doctor. It is the Surgeon General's job to issue public health warnings, blame Dr. Koop!

The President should have done his job which was to help protect his constituents. You're right, he wasnt a doctor.

He wasn't much of a politician either.

Besides his atrocious handling of the AIDS issue there are all the wonderful programs designed to get people out of the streets that he gutted to ensure that he could buy all his shiny new toys.

You only give two times a year? I'm up to almost 4 gallons for the past year and a half.[/b]

You have given 24 times in 18 months?

I DECLARE SHENANIGANS!!!!

I declare a typo. I hit the 4 on the numberpad instead of the one. I give 8 pints a years. Yeah, I know that you're only supposed to do it once every 56 days but I got enough. I've been giving blood since my sophmore year of high school so that would mean that to date I have given 14 gallons 3 pints.

[Hasty8]

Wow! So not only do you give blood five times a day, you also work for the Blood Bank. Id like to know where you get all your information from.


Look, im not saying Reagan was "behind the scenes" fighting for a cure for AIDS.

Im saying, that its bull for you to argue his involvement based on when he first publicly said "AIDS"

Can't you hear how ridiculous that sound?!. "The first time he publicly used the word "AIDS" was in ________<---Insert Date Here"
Even if that was accurate,which im sure its not, how is that any indication as to what he was doing to stop or minimalize the disease.

It's a well known fact that when needed a President will make appeals to the general public in order to garner support for the issue. IT was done during the rationings of WWI and other times as well.

Reagan ignored the topic and only gave the bare minimum of what was needed.

That's a fact.

As for the proof: http://www.aegis.com/news/ap/1985/ap850902.html

If Reagan called AIDS "public Enemy Number One" why was there such little funding for research?

Actions speak louder than words.

[Hasty8]

Well, it's been a pleasant diversion arguing with the righties but I'm off to enjoy one of the few national parks we have left that have not yet been raped by a republican.

Have a fun weekend all.

[1stdeadeye]

And what about not knowing the length of Reagan's tenure?

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

AIDS was not well understood and no one knew how much it would spread. I don't recall seeing Reagan come out against Pnuemonia either and I am sure it killed more people then AIDS over the same time frame!

[-Carnifex-]

Hasty you're skewing what people say here.

1DE didn't say that because Clinton was immoral that all democrats are.

He did not say that AIDs was merely a homosexual disease (though the statistics say that it was mostly spread through homosexual males.) Once again, it isn't Reagan's fault people ingaged in unsafe sex. It isn't Reagan's fault that the blood banks didn't heed the words of the CDC.

I may be wrong, but since when was it the president's job to address diseases? I thought that's what the CDC (That's Center For Disease Control for Hasty) was meant for.

[Army]

You made the accusations, now show your facts. We don't want to see a study done by some unknown blowhard leftist dipthong, we want to see hard facts of wrongdoing by Reagan.

Prove he flooded the country with illegal drugs in order to fund right-wing cells in other countries. Show me the congressional record of the committee formed especially to confront this.

Prove he willingly denied the CDC, or any other govt. agency, the means to study a...at the time...disease that wasn't common, nor especially deadly. More people STILL die of the flu, or heart disease, than have died from HIV/AIDS. Why didn't Jimmy Carter do anything about it? Why didn't Clinton with his 8 years, do anything about it?

Prove that he sold arms to Iran, show me the invoice with his signature on it. Telling his people to "take care of it", is a long way from saying specifically to do so.

Why do you think the USSR was in decline? Jimmy's politics? How about trying Reagans steadfastness in the face of the Soviet leadership. How about his threatening to, then deploying the Pershing II medium range missiles? The Soviet spending to counter that brilliant chess move nearly wiped them out. Trying to maintain a multi-ocean blue water Navy that could match or defeat ours was also a near impossibility for the Soviet system. Not to mention our wooing China and Pakistan into our camp. Yes Reagan played a dangerous nuclear game, as were the Soviets...remember the Cuban missile crisis...Mr. Reagan knew that the ONLY thing the Soviets responded to, was a show of resolute force.

Reaganomics was a deal made with the deplorable liberal controlled congress. For every dollar Reagan spent, congress agreed to cut 2 dollars from the budget. This was a gentlemans agreement, but as we all know, liberals ain't too gentlemanly. So, Ron cut our taxes by the widest margin in history, and spent his one dollar. However, congrees did NOT cut their 2 dollars as agreed, but added spending clauses to nearly every bill that came across their desks. This resulted in the huge deficit of the 80's. While the good people were attempting to put America First, liberal politicking was breaking the piggy bank. Despite that, tax incentives to the manufacturing base helped rebuild the US factories into the modern, outstripping the rest of the world in production and services. I remember well the wonderful exchange rate in Europe, when an Army Private could live like a King off-post in Germany with his measly pay. But Reagan fixed that too, with his DOD budget allowing huge pay increases to our military. See, most of all that military spending...was for pay, housing, and recruiting incentives, not for whiz-bang stuff.

These are all FACTS, easily found in any congressional report of the time. I, nor anyone else, made any of it up to discredit.

[1stdeadeye]

Hoorah Army!!!!

Great post. Maybe Hasty8 should also address the 60 million jobs created during the Reagan administration as well.

[FactsOfLife]

I can't begin to say how thoroughly I'm enjoying the rants of these liberal lightweights.

One says I sound communist, then in the same post says I'm fascist.


I always knew libs were borderline schizo.

Oh and Hasty, your little superior dance about ghengis? Show me where I disputed your "skooling". I said it went back to Ghengis. It did. The fact that it seems it originated with the romans negates that fact how?

As for "my little video", first, it is not "mine". It shows nothing more than liberals being liberals.

In all their glory.

As for your link...

I guess anyone with a geocities website is now, according to the libs anyways, the singular source for news?

I can now understand where you get your viewpoints.

As for my other thread and not allowing any dissenting opinions.

You did not give a dissenting opinion. You trolled. Purposely. I do appreciate you cleaning it up. That thread is not there for political debate. It is there to discuss the services of President Reagan. When the services are no longer front page news, the thread will disappear off the front page.

As for your thread, the word is revisionist, not revisional.

But you have the mechanics down right. Take blatant lies and attempt to rewrite history with them.

But see, unlike you and your diminutive sidekick PG, some of us actually lived through Reagans Presidency, and didn't have to learn about it from some skewed liberal textbook.

[FactsOfLife]

Army, you're wasting your time. These pinheads would argue the direction the sun rises if they thought a conservative had anything to do with it.

They're the epitome of small minded closet elitists, that think the average American isn't capable of making a rational thought.

They hate the country, they hate decency, and most of all they hate themselves.

They'd rather tear down than build up, rewrite history instead of make it.

What a sad miserable existance.

[m-98]

First, you all argue that you know histroy, well you do, but you all see it with your own slant because you were around to witness it, proving that there is no such thing as unbiased histroy, so don't try to pass off your memories and thoughts about things that have happened as solid fact because you may not know all the facts. Second, this thread reflects what I see politics in America to be, nothing but squabbling over petty issues. Maybe, if both parties would stop arguing with each other and trying to further their parties' goals then they might realize that they should be doing what is good for the American people and not what is good for their party. You all have shown me that all that modern politics is about who goes down as a good or a bad leader in histroy. Thank you for showing me what modern politics is all about. One more thing, histroy will not be written by two stubborn people arguing in an internet forum, so stop it is pointless.

[Albinonewt]

We didn't win a cold war, the Russians imploded. We are still paying for that debt.

They didn't implode in a vaccuum though. It's not like the Soviet Union, completely of its own accord and with no interfernce from us, just fell apart.

[Fred]

I think Hasty is Collegeboy back for Round 2...

[FactsOfLife]

I think Hasty is Collegeboy back for Round 2...

Nah even hasty isn't that vile....

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

They didn't implode in a vaccuum though. It's not like the Soviet Union, completely of its own accord and with no interfernce from us, just fell apart.

True, but Gorby sped the process along a decade or two.

[Kellen_p8nt]

ok. Im definetly tired of all of this. First off if i spell something wrong im sorry cs its late and im tired and lazy, deal with it. OK now to the important stuff.

I have seem ONE decent post on this whole freaking topic. ONE. Thats pathetic. Army asked for facts. Although he turned right around and said that "This was a gentlemans agreement, but as we all know, liberals ain't too gentlemanly" Well ok if a liberal group of people did something of a non-gentlemanly nature than fine call them not-gentlemanly. Don't lump us all together. I consider myself to be liberal, but i have also been called a gentleman on many an occasion.

LOT. You know what, your intitled to everything your say, its your right to say it. But why do you hate me? What is it that you have agianst my belief, as a liberal, when you dont even know them?

"The fact that you sorry leftists can't even show the merest shred of decency says VOLUMES about you."
Yea i agree with you to some etent here LOT. Let the man have his burial, id hope to beafforded the same decencies when i am buried. I watched some of the servic through out the day and have to admit it was a beautiful ceremony. Now i disagree with you in this grouping of yours. Not ll 'leftists" are indecent. I hardly am not. I did not attack reagan today on the day of his burial i maintain my composure and decency when i am confronted by people with strong opinions, in fact i openly embrace suh oppurtunities. Iwould claim that I am a decent leftist.

"I always knew libs were borderline schizo."
SOmehow this claim is justified because one person took your statements and present them as ommunist, another person responded and called your claims facist. Two seperate people responded, therefore there is no singular person and cannot be a schizo. And no before you say it liberals are not the borg there IS NO SINGULAR MIND.

"some of us actually lived through Reagans Presidency, and didn't have to learn about it from some skewed liberal textbook"
Ummmm ok? I didnt live through the Reagan presidency nor do i claim to know anything about it. Im just curious why you throw that rant on the end of this sentence. Alas, this is an arguement better suited for another time. Id love to argue with you about it, and honestly id agree that alot of professors are liberal. Weather or not thats a bad thing is another discussion.

"I guess anyone with a geocities website is now, according to the libs anyways, the singular source for news? "
Yea.... You can discredit a web site simply because it is a geocities site. But by the same token to get a website, no ads, domain name, and hosting, it can cost as low as $3 a month(depending on size etc. Its not lie its some complicated matter. Perhaps you can discredit the site because it is onesided, as all special interest groups(using the term loosely) are likely to be. the link you presented would be guilty of the same thing, in that it presents only one side of arguements.


No one has present a good arguemnt. Its beena yelling arguement. I honestly want to know the truth. I was four, when Reagan went out. Obviously i was too young to have experianced the administration to any knowledgable fact.

So someone ANYONE please explain to me why today on TV he is being portrayed as a great president. I dont ask to be rude or offensive or for any other reason than i DO NO KNOW. If he was horrid president FINE PROVE IT. If he was a great president FINE PROVE IT.

here is how you structure this. First create a resoltion. Reagan was a [good] [bad] president. Then you provide your core value, in other words WHY you say these things. such as he killed or he created jobs or he raised education etc. you then create your contentions which are facul based arguements. These contentions should suport your core value. This is not hard to do.

I think the two people here doing the best job are Hasty8 and 1stDeadEye. Why? They presented some facts, be the generalizations or not. I would like links to facts people present. The best post was mae by BRAK. Its advice we all, including myself because reading this post has gotten me a bit heated, need. We all need to just calm down and be sensible human beings and disscuss our opinions back them by facts and be open to the possibility of changing our opinion.


well i guess im done for now...ironic my first political post on AO, as long as ive been here heh, and it has nothing to do with "current politics".