Micahel Moore has to change his film title!

[RoadDawg]

Fine, here is my view on Moore.

At first, I respected him, if I did not agree with him. I felt that while "Roger and Me" was a fairly well done movie that some of his points were a bit inane. Calling on the President of Phillip Morris to roll a cigarette is just as stupid as asking a line worker in one of the factories to run the entire company.

After BFC I saw Moore for what he was. A self-indulgent turd. He slams Bush at every opportunity for lying to the public and then he goes and does the exact same thing in GCF.

Very hypocritical and a great way to lose fans.

[/rant]

Also, I never said that he hates America. While he may hate how things are done here he does not hate America.

He slams Bush for lying to the public because, we as the public should NOT be lied to. If the gov't lies to us then we should know about it. He slams Bush because he wants someone else. In fact a Majority of the popular voters during the 2000 election wanted someone else, electorial college votes differed. Remember how upset people were that Clinton got a "service call" in the oval office. He lied and was impeached. Bush has lied, in fact many Presidents have. Without public awareness lies will continue to come.

[Hasty8]

You cannot call somone a lisr while lying to make your point. If you lower yourself to the person you are calling out then you yourself are no better.

Moore lied to the public in a worse way that Bush ever has.

Bush may have been going on faulty intell. Whether he was or whether he blatanly lied to us we will simply never know.

Moore, knowingly, misled the public on a wide variety of issues with BCF.

The man is slime.

[spantol]

No, I'll discuss it here. I'm just curious as to why you think he hates America? His lying, etc don't mean he hates America; they could very well just be what he uses to get things changed to the war he wants them.

I've long been curious about this, too. I've seen this topic come up in other forums, and the "Michael Moore Hates America" argument typically reduces to this, rules of inference be damned:

• Conservatives love America
• Michael Moore is not a Conservative
• Therefore, Michael Moore must not love America

I'd love to see a rational explanation of why some think that he hates America.

That said, there are plenty of good reasons to hate Michael Moore. I just don't think this is one of them.

[Hasty8]

How do you figure Micheal Moore hates America?

I've read and re-read every post in this thread up until you posted this question Carnifex. Could you please direct us to the post where anyone says that Moore hates America?

[1stdeadeye]

I loathe Moore because he is a tool. He does not make documentaries, but fictional movies. I do not subscribe to his viewpoint, but I do not feel he should be muzzled either.

What I have a problem with is his trying to pass off his work as a documentary when it is in fact fiction. If he were to preent his movie honestly instead of trying to sneak into the documentary catagory fine, I'd ignore him. But he does not. He stole the oscar for BFC from legitimate documentary makers and I loved it when he was booed off the stage!

He is a fraud who wraps himself up in self righteousness. I hope this flops big time. As for Bradbury, he is threatening litigation because of the re-release of his book and pending movie which is mentioned at the end of the article, so read the whole thing.

As for this thread, I found it funny that Mr. Moore stole a respected title and theme without permission and is being called on the carpet for it.

[Hasty8]

I personally don't hate Moore. He has his view, yes, and to take it away from him would be extremely wrong against us all. He has interesting ideas and some odd ways of connecting stuff but I like to hear what he has to say. To automatically condemn the movie before reviewing his information is truely ignorant. Listen to what he has to say, then base a judgement out of that. Yes he has an extreme agenda. Everyone should know this before going in. Doesn't mean though that what he says may not be factual til all evidence is brought forth that it is not. No matter what both sides say, if it's something that can "hurt" their career in politics, they will deny, deny, deny. So right away I know that the Bush supporters will attack Moore's alligations. I know some of the Kerry supporters will support the film to bring down Bush's name. All in all though he's doing what he does. Review the evidence before making an assumption is all that I have to say.

Also before someone spouts of something dumb like "I saw Bowling and that was more then enough" type of deal just won't cut it. Just like in court if you assume someone's guilty before ALL the evidence is presented then you could be condeming a innocent man.

Moore also cares about his country. He is excercising his right to free speech, and his right to vote. You can love America but not the president. Alas he is our leader though and I'll follow him til I have the chance to vote him out. Bless America.

But this is not a court other than a court of public opinion.

As they saying goes "Trust is the hardest to gain and the easiest to lose".

It's even harder to regain. As for what he did in BFC it's not like it was limited to one minor occasion but rather it was his blatant manipulation of time and place that made this movie a total joke. As such he has no credability in my eyes.

[1stdeadeye]

No, I'll discuss it here. I'm just curious as to why you think he hates America? His lying, etc don't mean he hates America; they could very well just be what he uses to get things changed to the war he wants them.

Did I say he hates America? I said to torture him with campy WWII movies with all of their steereotypes and conservative movies/shows!

[Kellen_p8nt]

Well considering the film has not come out yet, I dont really see how you can make claims about facts in the movie. Every attempt to discount something in the movie by those who have seen it(private screanings) have been refuted.

If there were falsifications of facts in BFC then make claims about BFC or about his nature of falsifying facts. The movie is not out yet. No one here, more thn likely, has seen this movie yet.


I imagine some TROLL, on either side of the debate, will make somesort of post the day of or the day after the mocie is released. And evyone on here will piss and groan. Somee of us are groaning because we are tired of the political posts on this board, since no one is inclinded to discourse. Others will groan because its a michael moore film/he lied/ hes abusing emotions/ etc/etc(by the way none of which has been shwon to be true in regards to this film). ANother group will be groaning because of the other people groaning.

1DE. Did you read any of what I said in my previous post?


Some people are more beligerant on here than others. And by trolling(posting a thread with the obvious intent of inciting assumed reactions) your only luring those beligerant people to make posts. Do we need people bashing etc. etc. im just so tired

Im not going to defend Michael Moore, despite my like for him, becayuse I understand holding a political disscusion of any nature on these forums is pointless, and besides being pointless is absolutely outside of the nature of these forums. We come here in a common cause(paintball or automags) and most friendly forums threads have no politics in them. And we all share opinionson things we dont get angry about and we help each other out.

Threads on politics get us yelling at one another. Its not worth it

[Trick]

Here's an idea: if you think 1DE's posts are too "political" (which they aren't. it's just people like you that get them going that direction), why don't you just not click on them? Problem solved.

[Python14]

Pythons opinion?

Should Moore be allowed to make movies like "Bowling for Columbine" and "Fareinheit 911"?
Yes

Are his documentaries good?
No, they aren't even documentaries.

Should he act like he's a victim of something?
No, he is not a victim of anything other than his own egotistical nature and all it entails.

Is he right?
No

What is he?
A left-wing spindoctor extraordinaire.

What should we do with him?
Eat him.

[PissedGodzilla]

Here's an idea: if you think 1DE's posts are too "political" (which they aren't. it's just people like you that get them going that direction), why don't you just not click on them? Problem solved.

Isn't that what the liberals are saying about free speech and Howard Stern etc....

It's funny you would use a left-wing saying to defend a right winger. That's what us moderates call 'Irony"


politics

[Kellen_p8nt]

I dont really pay much attention to who posts them. Mostly I see the thread name. And when I see that thread title i feel the need to talk. Why? because I can.

Im only saying 1de (though usually good) is in this instance trolling.

I post because making intellectual comments on these thread is the only bastion of hope of making them better. I attempt to make the conversation actual DISCOURSE.


But in this instance we cannot have discourse. It seems impossible in light of this topic

[logamus]

What should we do with him?
Eat him.

he could certainly feed a great number of people. i thought his cow heart was going to explode yesterday on 'this week'. it could just be me but i think ol george stephanopoulos has a pretty good show. while i know in my heart he is at least as liberal as peter jennings, he doesnt seem to show it on his show as much as peter does. but i am usually overcoming a severe crack/heroin hangover on sunday mornings and that might alter my view slightly.

[Kellen_p8nt]

PG it took me like three trys to figure what you were saying but I get it now.

It is ironic.

Im all for 1DE speaking his mind. Its when one knows that hes going to incite beligerance and anger that i disssagree. It seems just silly.

Im not saying, aka forcing, 1de to not make posts like this. IM showing disagreement with this sort of thing. Which I also can do. Im not going to force 1de to do antyhing. Im asking that we ALL try to tone these posts more towards discourse and less in beligerant arguements.

[-Carnifex-]

Did I say he hates America? I said to torture him with campy WWII movies with all of their steereotypes and conservative movies/shows!

As for the torture, maybe strap him into a chair and watch hours and hours of Pro-America movies.

Has the implication that he hates America. Not to mention, I've heard it said in other threads (not necessarily by you). I'm not sure how you can say someone hates America just because they disagree with your ideology.