Intresting,: Iraq, EU and Kerry/Bush MATURE MEMBERS ONLY!

[GT]

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qaida Bush said in his January State of the Union speech.

"It came from the White House, it came from other people around the White House. It came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'you got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein.'" - Wesley Clark.

What better way to make an unpopular war popular? Use 9/11 and Al-quida to justify it.

Yeah Saddam has, and did have connections and contact with Al Qaeda. How does this translate to Saddam Participating in 9/11? How do you make that leap from the above statement that says NOTHING about Saddam being connected to 9/11???

CaptaiN_JacK,
Come on man, your a smart guy. Start reading credible news sources and analysis of what and why Iraq is the way it is. I think some of you folks need to take a look at how our foriegn policy has changed since 9/11 Simply, we refuse to sit back and allow other countries to hate us while activitly building and sponsering malitias of terror.

[FactsOfLife]

I find it amazing that a substantial portion of our society wants to live and act like we live in a Sept 10th world...

News flash guys, Sept 11th is a factoflife...

[Miscue]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm starting to think its a great idea that we recall our troops, hand Iraq back to Saddam, give him a pile of money, and then sit back comfortably here in the US, and just wait for the chemical, dirty, and nuclear bombs to start detonating, because, then, finally, we'll have justification to turn the middle east into a big, crispy, smoking sheet of glass....

I approve this message.

[oldsoldier]

One thing the world is taking from all this: the US will NOT sit back and let other countries attack us, or our interests, without a fight. And, let us not forget, most of the people fighting us are FOREIGNERS, not Iraqis. So, to say that the increase in insurgent attacks against the US is proof that Iraqis arent happy with us, goes against the facts. IF the majority of insurgents killed or captured are Iranian, jordanian, Saudi, Pakistani, or Egyptian, one has to ask, WHY are they fighting? Well, one reason, because, in most of that part of the world, they are indoctrinated to hate the West.
When I was in Cuba, these folks were treated with kid gloves. Most of them have never recieved ANY medical care in their lives prior to being in Gitmo. Nor, did they receive any education. Almost all of them were malnourished prior to getting there. Since theiur arrival, they have received all of this. And, you know what? They STILL dont like us. So, no matter how you treat the radicals, they will hate you for who you are. Simple as that.
One last point about us killing civilians. Its war. People die, bystanders, soldiers, sailors, pilots, kids, old folks. That is a fact, as disturbing as it may be. BUT, we do NOT target them. These insurgents, on the other hand, DELIBERATLEY target innocent people; relief workers, news personnel, women. Then, they MURDER them. Call it what you like, try to justify it any way you want; but, when it comes down to it, thats what they do.
I think that, were we to pull out now, we lose face with alot of the rest of the world. We have committed to this, we must go forth with it. For good or bad, we started this party, it is our responsiblity to see it through.

[-Carnifex-]

I find it amazing that a substantial portion of our society wants to live and act like we live in a Sept 10th world...

News flash guys, Sept 11th is a factoflife...

I totally agree, but let's not kid ourselves and say that Iraq was the biggest threat. UBL is the biggest threat. We have (this may be incorrect) less soldiers in Afghanistan than we do police in Manhattan.

The emphasis has gone away from UBL, this is a travesty.

The war in Iraq has been gravely mishandled and neither Kerry nor Bush will be able to fix it easily.

On an interesting side note, today crude oil hit $55 a barrel on NASDAQ (?). I'm thinking it's about time to dip into the reserve and make OPEC sweat a little.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

The ignorance is overwhelming, so I bow out of this egotistical debate. There will be no civilized humanity in a century with the pro-war mind set that people have now. Never has there been a good war or a bad peace, but evidentally we missed that memo.

You can say you got me beat, say it to all of your e-friends for all I care, but we could go on debating this topic for months without gaining any ground. The fact is, this war is based on personal ethics or the lack thereof, and it's not easy to change peoples ethics.

[Army]

CaptaiN_Jack is 100% correct, this conflict is based soley on personal ethics.....the ethics of Islamic terrorists.

Sorry Jack, say what you will about how terrible the West was in bringing the middle east into the 20th century, but none of this hatred has stemmed from the US. Our humanitarian history easily proves that. GW didn't start this fight, but he has vowed to end it.

These people want you dead, that is what they believe their god said, that is what their goal in life is. Nothing but a bullet in their heads will change their mind.

Personally, I find them offensive, and will to the best of my ability, and while I still have ammo, kill those people who wish to do me and America harm.

[taylor492]

...

Personally, I find them offensive, and will to the best of my ability, and while I still have ammo, kill those people who wish to do me and America harm.

...Using a bullet with my name on it.

[Dirty Dakota]

Rambling

Finishing the job we started is called leadership. It's the reason why President Bush is kicking John Effing Kerry's backside in poll after poll. It's called staying commited to the task at hand and securing the freedom of Iraq.

Finishing the job is critical. The rest is rhetoric.

Small Tangent:

I believe Sen Kerry's current agenda is that he would remove US soldiers from Iraq after six month in office. I really believe this statement is criminal:

What are the actions of the insurgent/terrorists after learning the above?
More violence elects Kerry, Kerry remove US soldiers from Iraq
Kerry says new Iraqi regime is a puppet, what is the alternative?
Over throw current regime, shop for new ruler at Despots-R-Us.
Support of other nations to help us in Iraq.
Some will and some won't it either gets done or it doesn't. The point is
that they have decided and we need to get on with the job.

Personal commentary on Germany
Germany is committed to helping us. They man many of the posts in
the Balkans, freeing more US soldiers. They are training Iraqi Armed
Forces in Bahrain. They are serving in Afganistan with almost a
brigade. The Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is in a battle to stay in
office. He needs the US but if he wants to stay in office he will stay
out of Iraq.


DD

[GT]

There will be no civilized humanity in a century with the pro-war mind set that people have now. Never has there been a good war or a bad peace, but evidentally we missed that memo.

These people want you dead

Jack,
I have this debate everyday with the people in my office. DO you deny any of Army's statement? Lets be honest he IS there and sees this everyday. Wake up and get into reality. Do you honestly think these people can be persueded with peaceful methods not to destroy innocent lives?

The ignorance is overwhelming

It sure is.....

[GT]

On an interesting side note, today crude oil hit $55 a barrel .

Anyone remember when members of the DNC cried that bush had the suadi royal family as well as OPEC in his back pocket and claimed that they would lower the price of oil before the election to get Bush re-elected?

[FactsOfLife]

I totally agree, but let's not kid ourselves and say that Iraq was the biggest threat. UBL is the biggest threat. We have (this may be incorrect) less soldiers in Afghanistan than we do police in Manhattan.

The emphasis has gone away from UBL, this is a travesty.

The war in Iraq has been gravely mishandled and neither Kerry nor Bush will be able to fix it easily.

On an interesting side note, today crude oil hit $55 a barrel on NASDAQ (?). I'm thinking it's about time to dip into the reserve and make OPEC sweat a little.

While I agree that UBL needs his head cracked, I do not agree that we have simply given up on him for Iraq. We still maintain a sizeable element in Afghanistan and Pakistan along the entire border area where he's suspected to be hiding. The biggest issue with that is the Pakistani tribes that hold that land as sacred. Do we just say, hell with you guys, we're going in?

I would but that's just me.

Were there some mistakes made in Iraq? Possibly, but I think that was more at the Command level rather than at the Administration level.

Personally Fallujah would have ceased to exist after they killed the 4 civilian contractors.

Instead of dipping into the strategic oil reserves, we ought to be drilling for oil and building new refineries here. We have planty of our own areas to do so. We also should be putting more of an emphasis on alternative sources for cars.

[FactsOfLife]

The ignorance is overwhelming, so I bow out of this egotistical debate. There will be no civilized humanity in a century with the pro-war mind set that people have now. Never has there been a good war or a bad peace, but evidentally we missed that memo.

You can say you got me beat, say it to all of your e-friends for all I care, but we could go on debating this topic for months without gaining any ground. The fact is, this war is based on personal ethics or the lack thereof, and it's not easy to change peoples ethics.

Huh, I was under the impression that at least the first two world wars, which we won btw, were certainly "good" wars.

Apparently Capt Jack feels that we should have done nothing about the Kaiser, and Hitler? Or the Imperial Japanese? And in the same vein apparently feels that if we simply not atagonise the Islamo-Fascists that they will leave us alone out of the goodness of their hearts?

Maybe if we run a more "sensitive war on terror" they'll respect that fluffy bunny mentality and simply not want to attack us anymore?

unreal...

[GT]

building new refineries here.

You're going to fidn this hard to believe but I heard that building a new refinery is cost prohibtive. I heard a goofy stat somehwere that there has not been a refinery built since the late 80's. If you guys want a fact finding mission this would be a good place to start.

[FactsOfLife]

You're going to fidn this hard to believe but I heard that building a new refinery is cost prohibtive. I heard a goofy stat somehwere that there has not been a refinery built since the late 80's. If you guys want a fact finding mission this would be a good place to start.

It is cost prohibitive from an environmentalist outcry perspective.

Same with drilling in the Gulf, and in Alaska.

And no, there has not been a refinery built in this country for more than 2 decades.

Can't make gasoline without em....