What is up with the EU

[Lohman446]

Ok.. I hear near constant whining from member states of the EU about how great the EU is and how it rivals America and American's are too conceited, etc etc. There military is a joke compared to ours - if you compare spending on military we spend more than the next 20 countreis combined to the point that we hold the UN Security Council hostage - if we want to do it it gets done, without us, it likely doesn't (there are notable exceptions I know). Hey, but military I can understand differences of opinion and what not. That was not what got me to say its time for teh EU to "put up or shut up"

There was a great disastor in Asia as many of you know, tens of thousands dead, countless without homes, food, or water. The donor countries have began to give support - Australia $8 million dollars, the US $15 million. The precious EU "you should work for the good of people around the world like we do" $4 million??? Whats up with that

And thats my rant for tonight

PS: source NPR I beleive "All Things Considered"

[Linkwarner]

USA ROCKS

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

The EU is quickly becoming the world's economic leader.

end of story.

[TheDuelist]

A lot of the technology we use in our military was developed in partnership with several different EU members. Technologically there are gaps but for the most part they don't suck. As for their contribution, the US initially only put up 4 million which was upped to 15. Give it time and they will give more.

Some examples

120mm smoothbore on the M1 Abrams- German
Harrier- British
The new XM8, soon to be replacement for M16/M4- Heckler & Koch- German


Theres many more but they don't come to mind right now. I'm sure plenty of others while chime in with more.

[SAW]

Duelist, that's great and all, BUT......The US still holds almost ALL the cards. The EU nations need the US's tech. We're at least a decade, maybe more, ahead of any other nation. They cannot bypass us in weapons technology, so they must come and ask for it. Without the United States' support, they could not lay claims to the advanced militaries that they possess.
Whatever we do, however many millions of dollars we donate to these damaged nations, it will never be "enough" in most nations' eyes.

[-Carnifex-]

SInce the EU is mostly for economic purposes I don't see why it'd need a great military.

[drg]

A lot of the technology we use in our military was developed in partnership with several different EU members. Technologically there are gaps but for the most part they don't suck. As for their contribution, the US initially only put up 4 million which was upped to 15. Give it time and they will give more.

Some examples

120mm smoothbore on the M1 Abrams- German
Harrier- British
The new XM8, soon to be replacement for M16/M4- Heckler & Koch- German


Theres many more but they don't come to mind right now. I'm sure plenty of others while chime in with more.

The AT-4 light antitank weapon is Swedish.
The M249 SAW is Belgian (FN).
the M9 service pistol is a Beretta design.
The US Capitol Police force sometimes sports H&K G36s.

[Can_Opener]

Like was mentioned earlier, the European Union is an economic union. Not a military alliance. Even though it is becoming an economic leader in the world, we just have to wait for the European countries to start bickering again (its bound to happen) and we become #1 once more.

[Muzikman]

The sad part is that the EU is exactly what Hitler was trying to create. There are many people in many of the countries in the EU that are not happy about it, but there is nothin they can do.

[drg]

Somehow I don't think Aryan superiority figures particularly largely into the EU's charter.

[SAW]

I think he meant a united Europe.

[drg]

You invoke Hitler, you have to deal with ALL of him. You can't just pick one of his ideas, which may have had merit, and use it to try to tar the current EU in a sideways manner. It's not logically consistent. There's a reason being likened to Hitler is a negative, and it ain't because he wanted to unite Europe. It's what he wanted to DO with a united Europe.

[SAW]

Understood, I see where you are coming from.

[TheDuelist]

Duelist, that's great and all, BUT......The US still holds almost ALL the cards. The EU nations need the US's tech. We're at least a decade, maybe more, ahead of any other nation. They cannot bypass us in weapons technology, so they must come and ask for it. Without the United States' support, they could not lay claims to the advanced militaries that they possess.
Whatever we do, however many millions of dollars we donate to these damaged nations, it will never be "enough" in most nations' eyes.

This isn't necessarily true. How many of the EU nations rely solely on US military technology? Quite a few have developed excellent weapons systems on their own. Some of the best fighters are being built in Europe and even Russia. Firearms technology is strong there. There armor sstems are quite good. To say they need our support is true but I wouldn't say we hold almost all the cards. The nations of the EU are extremely capable of handling themselves. Lucky for us we have a partnership in NATO.

I agree with you concerning the money we donate to the nations damage by the tsunami. Andy McNab said it the best while conducting training in South Africa with the British SAS. He said we create a world of takers instead of showing nations how to support themselves. Everytime we "give" them something they will come back expecting more when what we gave them runs out.

[Fred]

The EU looks great on paper, but other than the new currency, which is highly unstable (why it is fluctuating so much against the dollar), and a new level of beauracracy (which as a rule, Europeans love), not much has changed over there.

Their economy is not that great, not nearly as strong or stable as ours. Their society is shrinking. Yes, Shrinking. They aren't reproducing enough to sustain their rediculously bloated social programs, and they're finally realizing that the only way they're going to stay afloat is to open up immigration to people who have no interest in being European... Oops!

The Europeans are quickly learning that their international dominance of the last 4 centuries is at an end... and they don't like it, so they're making a futile attempt to proclaim themselves important and relevant to world leadership... Are they still? Yes, but not to the point where we should be kissing their butts they way they try and make us via the UN. The U.S.'s leadership role in the world is shrinking too, but as the only country that still has a pair as far as actually stopping tyrany, we'll still be around for a while.

China is where we need to be looking closely, the people there are realizing how much better off they are with capitalism, and the potential for them to quickly become the world's greatest economic power is bigger than anyone will really give them credit for.

---Fred