Is america stingy?

[drg]

America may deny aid but they would never say that someones efforts were "stingy."

Well basically, you just did. I think this all needs to be put into context. Things like this don't happen in a vacuum. The current world political climate has something to do with it, just as the current thread climate has something to do with your bringing it up. The US just might have a little something to do with the world political climate being what it is.

This US administration likes to crow about the money it doles out in foreign aid. Insomuch as that politicizes it, it becomes somewhat fair game for comment by others with a stake in world politics. I personally wouldn't make those comments, but then again I wouldn't brag about how much I donate to charity either.

[Albinonewt]

$30,000 donatations and a few teams of a dozen people from the rest of planet?

But when we offer only $30,000,000 the world calls us stingy.

I am not moved

[GT]

Well basically, you just did. I think this all needs to be put into context. Things like this don't happen in a vacuum. The current world political climate has something to do with it, just as the current thread climate has something to do with your bringing it up. The US just might have a little something to do with the world political climate being what it is.

So when the US does something in its own intrest that isnt popular, any and all ciritisms, no matter how far off base is justified?

Do you honestly think that the world would ever come the aid of the US if it were crippeled, like japan and germany after world conflict? Like you said, times have changed.....

[drg]

$30,000 donatations and a few teams of a dozen people from the rest of planet?

But when we offer only $30,000,000 the world calls us stingy.

I am not moved

You calling them stingy too?

By the way, this whole "us vs. the world" mentality is part and parcel of the Ugly American mindset. We aren't against the world, we are part of it. In the end, no one country can stand against the world, not even us. So continuing down that path is self-destructive.

[drg]

So when the US does something in its own intrest that isnt popular, any and all ciritisms, no matter how far off base is justified?

Do note that nowhere do I endorse what was said. Do not confuse my position with agreement with that. I just think that the uberpatriotic froth being whipped up here is based on bunk history.

Do you honestly think that the world would ever come the aid of the US if it were crippeled, like japan and germany after world conflict?

Absolutely. Too much resource here to let waste away.

[GT]

Do note that nowhere do I endorse what was said. Do not confuse my position with agreement with that. I just think that the uberpatriotic froth being whipped up here is based on bunk history.

Niether one of us are going to change each others mind, however, lets not pretend that any "aid" given to the US durring crisis is for little more than appearence.

[HoppysMag]

yes because thats exactly what we need. medivac planes from germany. because you know our military and national guard are so small and have no planes. / sarcasm

i apreciate the worlds help.but its ultimatly useless. its insignigicant to what we already have.

but we dont need it. maybe thats why they offer. because they know we would turn them down. maybe they offer just for publicity. maybe thats why they DONT offer. because they know we dont need it. but the facts remain. most of the world does hate us. and with few exceptions those others still dont like us but like our money. this isnt a US vs the world. this is the world vs the US. as much as the average american citizen would like to see t72's rolling through the streets of paris we would never let it happen. american blood would run before we let that happen. i wonder how many nations across the world would be indeferant to a mushroom cloud rising above an american city?

[drg]

Niether one of us are going to change each others mind, however, lets not pretend that any "aid" given to the US durring crisis is for little more than appearence.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The compassion shown by the world after 9/11 was genuine. Perhaps the devastation from wars started after 9/11 has numbed you to it, but I remember clearly that the attitude of the peoples of these nations was very much in our corner. These countries were not doing this against the will of their people, like many did in supporting the Iraq war. The people wanted to help us and their governments made the efforts. Yes, even the French. And let us not underestimate the value of political support. It is a lot more valuable than most of you realize. The world DID NOT HATE US as much as they do now. Ask yourselves why!

Back on topic, here's a small example of what I mean by context. Our pledged contribution to this relief effort is:

1. Less than 1/5 what we spend fighting the Iraq War PER DAY. Makes it seem like we spare no expense to kill people, but can't be bothered to save people.
2. Less than 1/2 what Britain pledged. A tiny island nation has shown us up.
3. Less than 1/6 what the World Bank is putting forth. A UN organization, derided by many in the US as useless, is showing us up sixfold.

Whether or not these impressions are true is immaterial, at least as immaterial as someone calling us stingy.

[HoppysMag]

3. Less than 1/6 what the World Bank is putting forth. A UN organization, derided by many in the US as useless, is showing us up sixfold.

\.

and how much of that is from the US?

[drg]

and how much of that is from the US?

It doesn't matter.

[HoppysMag]

It doesn't matter.

how so? its a matter of objectivity. how far you want to break it down. if we bankrole the UN, world bank and others. and our spending on that is a greater percent of our total value than anothers countrys aid then arnt we giving more?


i had 20$ in my waller
i put 15$ into the bill the other night ( my meal was only 9)
my friend wants to borrow 4$ to help cover his part of the bill, i only lend him 1 and some one else ( who rarely ever puts in tip might i add) gives him 3. all the sudden im the cheapskate?

[drg]

how so? its a matter of objectivity. how far you want to break it down. if we bankrole the UN, world bank and others. and our spending on that is a greater percent of our total value than anothers countrys aid then arnt we giving more?


i had 20$ in my waller
i put 15$ into the bill the other night ( my meal was only 9)
my friend wants to borrow 4$ to help cover his part of the bill, i only lend him 1 and some one else ( who rarely ever puts in tip might i add) gives him 3. all the sudden im the cheapskate?

See the thing is, it's not YOUR money. Once the money goes into the UN, whatever agency it may be, it ceases to be the US's money. To keep tabs on it after it passes into the common good is a very self-centered (and unfortunately very American) thing to do. It's kind of like giving to charity.

[GT]

1. Less than 1/5 what we spend fighting the Iraq War PER DAY. Makes it seem like we spare no expense to kill people, but can't be bothered to save people.

Is it cheaper to send our militiary to fight in Iraq or to just bomb the entire coutry? It is extremely expensive to sort out the innocent from the terrorist. If your statement held any validity and the US was concerned about how much the war cost and how many people we kill, the enitre country would be smouldering glass. Very cheap, highly effective, but instead the US wanted to preserve life and send the heros in to sort out the mess.

1. Less than 1/5 what we spend fighting the Iraq War PER DAY. Makes it seem like we spare no expense to kill people, but can't be bothered to save people.
2. Less than 1/2 what Britain pledged. A tiny island nation has shown us up.
3. Less than 1/6 what the World Bank is putting forth. A UN organization, derided by many in the US as useless, is showing us up sixfold.

Contrary to unpopular belief the current admin is not stupid enough to just hand over gobbs of money w/o knowing what is needed. Trust me, the US will spend billions over there rebuilding the tourism industry so our citizen can go back and spend billions every year durring holiday.

How much money did those orgs. put up for the four huricanes that has destroyed the same tourism industry in flourida?

[GT]

It's kind of like giving to charity.

I think my head just exploded. Taxes are NEVER charity. I go to jail if I dont pay my taxes....

[drg]

Is it cheaper to send our militiary to fight in Iraq or to just bomb the entire coutry? It is extremely expensive to sort out the innocent from the terrorist. If your statement held any validity and the US was concerned about how much the war cost and how many people we kill, the enitre country would be smouldering glass. Very cheap, highly effective, but instead the US wanted to preserve life and send the heros in to sort out the mess.

You're arguing against nothing. I never made that argument personally, however you know very well that this perception exists in the world, which is the point I am making. I pass no judgment on it in this thread.

How much money did those orgs. put up for the four huricanes that has destroyed the same tourism industry in flourida?

The World Bank is not intended for the support of developed countries.