49 Governors but Washington Ain't One

[Albinonewt]

Will the Election ever end>

I mean seriously, I hate recounts as much as the next guy, but how dead peple are going to vote? There have been 2 recounts now, a hand recount where the Dem won by 100+ votes, a machine recount where the GOP won by 50ish votes, and the original election the GOP won by 260 votes. All of this is out of 2.6 million votes.

I love the Democratic candidate, Gregoire, who wanted recounts until she won, and now claims that because the last recount went her way that decides it.

"The vote changed, I won, and now suddenly there's something wrong," Gregoire said Tuesday. "I won by 129. It's time for us to put it behind us and move on."

There have been massive irregularities in this election, from dead people voting, to King County "finding" new balltos each recount, to felons without the right to vote getting to vote anyway. Plus recounts are just too inaccurate and too prone to fraud. There are thousands of people involved in the process and oversigt just isn't possible. People are counting ballots by hand, and with margins of only a few hundred votes it only takes a handful of corrupt counters to spoil the whole thing.

There needs to be a mechanism in place for this kind of thing. I don't really think that the recount does anything to clear up confusion. With 2.6 million votes cast I really think it safe to say that there wasn't a clear winner, regardless of who wins a recount. Now, I don't really know how Washington is going to fix this problem right now, but in the future I think states should start adpoting specific laws for close elections, namely run-offs. In the case of the Washington election a run-off should have been triggered if 1) neither candidate had 50% of the vote or B) the margin of victory was less then 1/10 of 1%. If either or both of those criteria were met then there would be a second election, in say 2 weeks, and the results of that election would be final.

I don't really care who wins this race, but I think it absurd that it's January and no clear winner is established. I also think it hypocrisy of Gregoire to be screaming for recount and recount and then change her mind the second one shows her as the winner. This only demostrates how flawed the recount process is.

[1stdeadeye]

Don't you know that is the Democratic mantra, Count until our person wins!

A new election as happened in Ukraine due to fraud should happen. It won't though. The Washington State SUpreme Court will not have the cajones to make it happen. A newspaper finding 8+ dead voters in an election this close should make a runoff mandatory, but it won't happen!

[tony3]

Nice title, mad me laugh.

[FooTemps]

Garr! Our State Needs To Freakin Make Up Its Mind! Too Many Freakin Recounts!!!

[Kevmaster]

the state needs to follow its procedures. if its legal procedures specify that whoever wins after the second (hand) recount, wins...then thats it. tough crap. if it says that the third recount, done by aleins wins, then whatever they decide stands. if state law says its two reconts and done, and the second one stands...we quit

[drg]

Oh please, give us all a huge break. Rossi was even more hypocritical, saying Democrats should just accept the results, now suddenly it's all wrong and he's going so far as to ask for a re-vote. A re-vote? NOWHERE in the law is that allowed for, however the recounts are. And if the result changes, so be it. Do note that the last TWO recounts showed Gregoire ahead, the additional ballots allowed by the courts only widened the margin.

Contrary to your constant vote-fraud conspiracy theories, recounts are intended to get CLOSER to the actual result, not further. No further votes have been cast since election day.

I like how once the same thing is thrown back in the GOP's face, they start whining and screaming just the same. Given that they've repeatedly taken a holier-than-thou attitude on this issue, I'd say they are much the worse.

[Albinonewt]

Oh please, give us all a huge break. Rossi was even more hypocritical, saying Democrats should just accept the results, now suddenly it's all wrong and he's going so far as to ask for a re-vote. A re-vote? NOWHERE in the law is that allowed for, however the recounts are. And if the result changes, so be it. Do note that the last TWO recounts showed Gregoire ahead, the additional ballots allowed by the courts only widened the margin.

Wrong, the first recount showed Gregoire losing by 50 votes

Plus there's been no evidence of any kind of Republican vote tampering, and there is plenty of suspicious behavior on the Democrat's side.

Contrary to your constant vote-fraud conspiracy theories, recounts are intended to get CLOSER to the actual result, not further. No further votes have been cast since election day.

Not cast, but mysteriously "found" since the election.

I like how once the same thing is thrown back in the GOP's face, they start whining and screaming just the same. Given that they've repeatedly taken a holier-than-thou attitude on this issue, I'd say they are much the worse.

But since the election the Democratic county keeps "finding" new ballots for their candidate. Maybe they're not being fraudulantly found, but only the King County elections office keeps inventing new votes until they win. I still don't like recounts, but I sure do see Rossi's point.


Which still isn't the point. I could care less who the governor of Washington is. I do care about the constant election nonsense, as it sets terrible precendent. After this election is decided this kind of thing needs to be seriously looked at, and I think a re-vote system would be preferable to this waste of time recount nonsense.

[Maksimus54]

The problem is the voting irregularities. There are over 8500 ballots without names on them. Most from king county, which means probably 70% democrat. I am really frustrated with the whole recount process and the fact that our state supreme court was so biased as to not allow a statewide recount. Gregoir went against what she said and accepted a recount of only a few select counties. Plus there were like 1800 military votes that weren't accepted late, yet many many recounted votes that were not counted for various reasons. I think that if you are going to break the rule for the votes in King County, why not at least those serving overseas to have their votes accepted to. They are fighting a freaking war for us and had their votes denied cause they had combat duty. Well anyway, what I really want to see is a revote. Deny any and all quetionable ballots, prosecute fraud to the fullest, and elect a governor without any question remaining as to who rightfully won.

[drg]

Yes, the first recount showed Rossi's lead dwindling, correct me if I am wrong but that was the machine recount. Then the law allows for a hand recount. That showed Gregoire in the lead barely. This procedure is prescribed to, by design, return an increasingly accurate vote count.

My personal take is that recounts aren't necessarily bad, and this isn't necessarily setting a bad precedent. Washington will likely come out of this with a clearer idea of how the recont system works, and adjustments can be made for future instances.

[Albinonewt]

Yes, the first recount showed Rossi's lead dwindling, correct me if I am wrong but that was the machine recount. Then the law allows for a hand recount. That showed Gregoire in the lead barely. This procedure is prescribed to, by design, return an increasingly accurate vote count.

Yes, the original recount was machine.

And any person that believes in such a thing as an accurate recount with a margin of error of less then .0047% (the win margin in the final recount) is a comlete and total moron. Nothing has a margin of error that low. Certainly nothing that includes thousands of unkilled to semi-skilled low paid counters.

My personal take is that recounts aren't necessarily bad, and this isn't necessarily setting a bad precedent. Washington will likely come out of this with a clearer idea of how the recont system works, and adjustments can be made for future instances.

While recounts may not be inherently evil they are pointless. Recounts are used for the one thing they are useless for, and that's determining extremely small margains. Do you really think a manual recount is so accurate that in almost 3 million votes less then 130 mistake were made?

While the law doesn't allow for a new election now it should be amended to forgo the recount process and instead use run off elections for future races. I don't really care how they settle it now. Whoever becomes governor is just as likely to be illegitimate is legitimate at this rate. The margin is far far to narrow for any recount to meaningful. And anyone that thinks that either candidate is the clear winner based on a recount is an idiot.

[Albinonewt]

The problem is the voting irregularities. There are over 8500 ballots without names on them. Most from king county, which means probably 70% democrat. I am really frustrated with the whole recount process and the fact that our state supreme court was so biased as to not allow a statewide recount. Gregoir went against what she said and accepted a recount of only a few select counties. Plus there were like 1800 military votes that weren't accepted late, yet many many recounted votes that were not counted for various reasons. I think that if you are going to break the rule for the votes in King County, why not at least those serving overseas to have their votes accepted to. They are fighting a freaking war for us and had their votes denied cause they had combat duty. Well anyway, what I really want to see is a revote. Deny any and all quetionable ballots, prosecute fraud to the fullest, and elect a governor without any question remaining as to who rightfully won.

Agreed. Although I think a state wide re-vote has it's own problems at this late stage in the game. I advocate that process for future elections when the system can be worked out properly. But would an overseas military vote be counted now? I think that Gregoire's party has engaged in fraud. I think the "found" ballots in King county and other more minor irregularities strongly suggest fraud. I also don't think that in the end it's going to matter or that it changes the fact that the election was just too close to call. That being said, it really annoys me that Gregoire can issue the statement I posted up top knowing the kind of reasonable allegations that exist.

[drg]

Agreed. Although I think a state wide re-vote has it's own problems at this late stage in the game. I advocate that process for future elections when the system can be worked out properly. But would an overseas military vote be counted now? I think that Gregoire's party has engaged in fraud. I think the "found" ballots in King county and other more minor irregularities strongly suggest fraud. I also don't think that in the end it's going to matter or that it changes the fact that the election was just too close to call. That being said, it really annoys me that Gregoire can issue the statement I posted up top knowing the kind of reasonable allegations that exist.

Well even not counting the "found" ballots, the result had turned in her favor, albeit by a smaller margin.

[drg]

While recounts may not be inherently evil they are pointless. Recounts are used for the one thing they are useless for, and that's determining extremely small margains. Do you really think a manual recount is so accurate that in almost 3 million votes less then 130 mistake were made?

Executed correctly, it is possible. Several humans reading a ballot is potentially more accurate than a machine reading a mark with an electric eye within certain tolerances. In any event, the hand count should be the count with the most confidence. That's what it's for.

I think you are just sour because it reversed enough machine errors to turn the vote against your party. I didn't hear you decrying the inaccuracy of vote counts when Rossi was leading by 260, or when he was leading by 52.

Rossi, his people and the conservative punditry were calling for Gregoire to "just accept it" earlier when he was up, but before the process was finished. I think it's justified, appropriate and humorous for Gregoire and her people to now pound that attitude back in their faces.

[Albinonewt]

Well even not counting the "found" ballots, the result had turned in her favor, albeit by a smaller margin.

There were 700 "found" balltos, which leaned democrat by a very large percentage. And the vote tally shifted 200 or 400 votes (depending on which count you use as the benchmark).

Without those votes the election wouldn't have changed.


Which still doesn't matter because the margin of error is so small that the results mean nothing no matter who the winner is. But it's unfortunate that King County had to cheat like that to try to win.

[Albinonewt]

Executed correctly, it is possible. Several humans reading a ballot is potentially more accurate than a machine reading a mark with an electric eye within certain tolerances. In any event, the hand count should be the count with the most confidence. That's what it's for.

That;s idiotic. machines aren't subjective, humans are. Humans will apply different standards and make minor "human" errors. Machines won't. Humans have opinions about the election. Machines don't.

I think you are just sour because it reversed enough machine errors to turn the vote against your party. I didn't hear you decrying the inaccuracy of vote counts when Rossi was leading by 260, or when he was leading by 52.

I didn't bother posting at the point, because till then nobody had cheated. But as I said, more then once, I think at that close a vote there should b e a run off. And I don't care who the governor of Washington is. I think you don't have anything to say other then "You're a partisan wash wash wash"

Rossi, his people and the conservative punditry were calling for Gregoire to "just accept it" earlier when he was up, but before the process was finished. I think it's justified, appropriate and humorous for Gregoire and her people to now pound that attitude back in their faces.

But between recounts Gregoire cheated. Now republicans want to undo the cheating. Its not half as hypocritical as you think.