AO Brouhaha - An Observation

[Python14]

Dishing out draconian style bannings is only going to attract more of it, you do know that, right?

[Thordic]

Dishing out draconian style bannings is only going to attract more of it, you do know that, right?

Only for a short while, and only by those who want to cause trouble, assuming the rules are made well.

If the rules are fair, then enforcing them strictly shouldnt be a problem.

[Python14]

Could AO survive that period though?

[Thordic]

Yeah, because only idiots would get banned. The rules of AO aren't unfair in the first place, as they are written, and they are modifying them now to make them better. They shouldn't be hard to follow.

The issue is in the RULES not in the enforcement of them. Assuming the rules are well-written, then AO would be better off.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Dishing out draconian style bannings is only going to attract more of it, you do know that, right?

Part of the main complaint that the dissidents have is the lack of action on the Mods part to cleanse AO of non-contributing and distracting knuckleheads. If this is the case, those who abide by the rules shouldn't have a problem, those who don't will give the Mods justification to take action.

The time for half-measures are over. Although I realize that what I may be saying may be unpopular. Perhaps someone really needs to step up and be heard on this matter. Let's stop sweeping it under the rug.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Suggested Addendum to the Rules posted by Webmaster.

Maintain Decorum. Remember that the site is intended for PG consupmtion. Show the same level of respect to your fellow members that you would expect others to extend to you.

Site Linkages. Only links to sites that have the same PG rated policies as AO for openly and publicly displayed materials should be allowed. Sites with material considered to be for adults should have said material available only to authorized registered individuals who have executed the proper disclaimer.

Do not Post Graphic Materials that some members may find offensive. Posting pictures of a carcass does nothing to contribute to the overall quality of AO. Think first if what you're posting contributes to the greater good.

Unauthorized Access to Illuminati and the public sharing of information found therein will result in non-negotiable Perm Ban. The Mods have the right and duty to keep what's going on inside Illuminati a secret. It is none of any Members' business what goes on inside.

[Tunaman]

Brian, as I stated in my post on your forums, this had nothing to do with you personally, as you know as well as I do we have no issues between us and have been friends for a long time. I also would like to keep it that way. I only wish you could understand that what happened in chat that night happened so fast that there was no time for me to get in another word before you blasted me and logged off. You KNOW now that there was a simple solution to fixing it. So did I at the time. I do not believe enough talk time transpired between us to even get into that. I do wish the converstaion could have continued and probably none of this would have happened. According to the sig rules which you are aware of, we (mods) do not need to contact you if the sig or link is offensive. Apparently, we think some things on your site do not meet the criteria for AO, as it is at least R rated. I have no problem with R rated material or even X rated material for that matter. It is my opinion that you are well aware of the material on your site and have no cause to care who sees it. Speaking for the few mods that were in agreement on removing the link, we felt it was the best thing to do at the time. I understand that the link means alot to you and I have no problems with you linking to your site. I can only wish for the good of AO and the younger crowd and their parents that view AO that you might hide some of the explicit material from unregistered users, or anyone who might click on that link. As for comparing it to Blackcell, you can blame the administrator of that site for allowing it. I am sure he realizes that providing access to pornagraphy without age verification is a violation of federal law. I havent been to that site in ages and had no idea what was there and really dont care. Again, This was not meant to turn out this way and I sincerely hope that you dont take it personal. I was doing this sucky job, and and I wasn't alone in making the decision. We all know now that it could have been avoided, and if we had any inkling it would have gone this far we may not have made the decision that we did. I hope you understand that it isn't as it appears. You do know me better than that.

Just a final note.
We were well aware of the length of time your link has been there. Have you ever stopped to consider the fact that some/most of the content that we used to make our decision was not there for the entire year and posted recently?

[skife]

solution.... anarchy!


kidding...

just stop beating a dead horse. what happened happened and its done now.... so everyone please stop.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Beating a dead horse for the purpose of revisiting the incident is not what we're after here. What we're after is to identify the problem and come up with some tangible solution for it.

Aren't you sick and tired yet of issues getting swept under the rug only for the discontent to simmer and rear its ugly head dwon the road?

Let's take the time now and have the stomach to face the problem so that it can be fixed permanently.

[PBX Ronin 23]

BTW, in all fairness, let's talk a look at things from a moderator's viewpoint.

We all know already that it is a thankless job. But many of the mods here are friends with most of the members of AO. Doesn't it blow that they can potentially be caught between enforcing the rules and compromising their existing relationships with members?

Also, let's face it, some of the mods here do their mod-thing during regular business hours while they're on the clock. Apparently there may be a perceived threat from a former AOer that has had a documented history of attacking a member at their place of employment. Kinda tough to do something that doesn't monetarily compensate you and simultaneously deal with the thought that a vindictive knucklehead can endanger your livelihood.

Shhheesh. Now I can only imagine what went through Uncle Phil's mind. Between dealing with the bs and having to watch your back. Pheewww. If I was in his shoes I would have quit months ago.

[1stdeadeye]

Wait, if the problem is adult material there is no problem.

In the Thorums, you need to have permission to access the Adult oriented area. The worst anyone not already a member WITH PERMISSION could get to is cursing which they can get on PBN.

What's up with that?

[PBX Ronin 23]

1DE, apparently text relating to adult related content was the issue. Not the graphic stuff....which I have yet to see.

[ogre55]

1DE, apparently text relating to adult related content was the issue. Not the graphic stuff....which I have yet to see.

As Miscue stated above:

To remove links to Thordic.com... we would have to also remove all links to PBNation.com as well as other sites, to maintain consistency. I'm not equating them as equals, but where is the line drawn? Do we disallow yahoo.com as well, because it is a gateway to offensive material?

We can't police the Internet. The only sites we can fairly concern ourselves with are those with pornographic materials, which of course are not allowable."

PBN has been linked to extensively on these forums. Sure, the Thorums can be "colorful" but no worse then many of the other sites one can access by linking through these forums.

So the questions comes back to the mods, why did you decide to police this particular site? Did someone complain? Did some make some decision that the mods were asked to implement? I think that what led to this most recent blow-up is the secrecy and the seeminly unilateral decisions.

Ogre

[FistS]

Basically,
It was handled in the wrong fasion.
It's been stated before, that in order to view the adult forums, you needed to be a registered user and be granted access by Thordic himself. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but simply re-asking the ultimate question(s).

Why was Thor's site illegal after almost a year of being linked?
Who in the heck speculated that Sarah used Army's account to view the Mod's Only forum?
Why do woman drive big suv's when they don't know how to drive? - JK, had to lighten it up?-

Meh, long live the Thorums. After this is all said and done, whens the next big meet? IAO? <3

[PBX Ronin 23]

The more I hear what came down, the more I think this whole drama filled weekend wouldn't have happened if a certain chat conversation lasted just a few sentences longer.

As for the second issue, no one really knows but.......

Suggested Addendum to the Rules posted by Webmaster.

Unauthorized Access to Illuminati and the public sharing of information found therein will result in non-negotiable Perm Ban. The Mods have the right and duty to keep what's going on inside Illuminati a secret. It is none of any Members' business what goes on inside.