We Have A Pope!

[Echo419]

So... um... Sorry for bieng my self here but... Am i the only one who thinks he looks like a weasel that mated with a rat?

[spantol]

I've heard the term "rebound pope" used to describe this guy. I like it. After JPII's 25 year papacy, they wanted a traditionalist type guy to more or less stay the course for a few years. The Church doesn't handle ends of eras and the associated drama well; it isn't ready for a reformer.

I didn't read the entire thread since it's not a subject that I really care about so this might have been said but shouldn't that have picked someone that's oh, I don't know, not 80? They're going to have to go through it all again in a couple years.

[Jakedubbleya]

Wow, one at a time here people heh.

Pathetic. That's why religion is doing so badly in the educated parts of the world.

If the apathetic masses would vote, the one issue fundamentalists would hold less sway in American politics too.

If you feel you have to "baby-sit, feel free to get lost. Morals, rights, society, theology are all matters of intelligent discourse. You may be too small minded to understand the concept, but no one has the one and only correct answer.

Wrap your mind around the idea that if YOU are correct and only one interpretation of gods message is correct, it might be YOU that's wrong and maybe it's only the Mormons, Jews, Protestants, or some bizzare little jungle sect that's going to heaven.

The link you posted?

Standard circular arguments and tautologies.

God gave man a mind powerful enough to question authority. To not question it is to go against God's will. If Go was testing you, do you really think the correct answer is always don't question, do as you're told?

The educated parts of the world also happen to be the materialistic parts of the world, something that is well, unchristian by nature, and thus less likely to accept such teachings perhaps education has merely led the general populace to more extravagant excuses to live the way they(and i, im no exception) want...?

As for your "if you can do it is a sin not to" philosophy: By catholic teachings, God gave us free will so that we could prove that we could overcome those temptations and thus attain greater glory in heaven. It is also a catholic teaching that challenging and doubting the faith is not only natural, but healthy. This is not the standard in all religions, mormonism for example teaches that any doubts/challenges are direct from satan.

Now i can butt catholic philosophies all day against other ones, but thats not why im participating in this forum, if i wanted to do that i would have started a "hippies suck" thread. I am here as a counterweight to the popular media, which interviews the most liberal off the wall priests (the publisher of -America- magazine for example) and laymen and expects everybody to just accept what these mis-informed say, as catholicism. I would do this for most religions.

ahh what else....

All of you "catholics" saying what im saying isnt real catholicism... Do you understand the levels of sin? Did you know that when you go to communion in the state of mortal sin (lying, whacking off, so on), you are in fact commiting another mortal sin? (oh there are so many more of these little goodies..), have you ever actually read any thomas aquinas or theresa of avila, or ANY of the doctors of the church?

This is the catholicism that has been taught by the saints and theologians of catholicism for thousands of years. This cannot and will not change unless something drastic happens and that "somethign drastic" would effectively dissolve the church because one fallacy invalidates the whole of the church, naturally. UNIFORM catholicism is evident in the writings of PJII and all the saints. That the church would accept more modern, yet anti-doctrinal teachings would not be a step forward, but rather a falsification of all catholic theology. THAT is why issues like gay rights and women priests are NOT ISSUES, they cannot be open for debate. Not that anybody who knew what they were talking about debated them anyway, because they already fit inside the existing theology.

Personally, i have a lot of respect for any religion that is so unwavering. And i think that a religion that changes its doctrine on public whims is obviously a HUMAN church. IF God is, then God is who God is, not who you make him, and the catholic church fits very well into that philosophy. If you decide to just pick up a bible and thats how you want to connect with God you must accept that you are creating God more than you are getting to know him. Either that or that god is a multi-exstance self-conflicting God with no true identity, which imo isnt the God of the bible.

That he would establish an infallible institution to reveal himself makes sense. To love God completely one must KNOW God completely, now the catholic church does not have any claims to know God completely, but rather that they know most of what God has revealed and that is supposedly as close as we can get in this life and thus the fullness of christs teachings.
(FYI not only would God revealing everything change our existance as we know it, but it would negate the purpose of free will in the first place.)

so yeah,
thats the general idea behind it...

----------------------

On another note, i feel it is highly innapropriate and unreasonable to demand my religion under threat of editing. Up till now all that has been needed are basic facts on the catholic church, something that anybody could attain.

Could we take the general hostility level down a bit? I apologize for the babysitting comment, and i hope we can debate this like reasonable adults. I know religion is a very sensitive topic and i will try to be as sensitive as i can to those not of the catholic religion, although you might find me a bit blunt to the catholics, my apologies.

anyway, lets move away from that junk and talk about whats going to change, how you all feel, etc.

[Lohman446]

Isn't it normal to have one long pope (selected younger) followed by one short (selected later in life). I think it helps to balance things out...

[j.storm]

Oughta be interesting to see how long this new Pope stays in office. He's got history staring him in the face saying "Welcome to the top. You now have 5 years to live."
Not the kind of job i'd like

BTW--anyone see the irony in the name he those? Interesting that......

[Steelrat]

OKay Steel. then tell me why Bush is not allowing furthur expansion of the existing stem cell lines for research.


Oh my god. (no pun intended). Steel, how may leaders of the most powerful nations were in attendance of Karol's funeral? Bush was the first President to even attend a funeral which is a very powerful message in and of itself.

The Church has significant weight and should not be taken lightly.

-Bush's decision has nothing to do with the Catholic church.

-The reason so many leaders went to the funeral was pure PR. Don't mix up the influence of Christianity as a whole with the influence of the Catholic church and the Pope. I really can't think of any major world issues in which the Catholic church had any influence, other than certain domestic issues, and even then its the consituency that mattered, not the Pope. Bush may have shown up at the funeral, but its obvious that the US government never gave a crap what the Vatican thought when it made actual decisions. Showing up at the funeral meant nothing, and was purely symbolic.

[Target Practice]

On another note, i feel it is highly innapropriate and unreasonable to demand my religion under threat of banning.

What the hell?

[Jakedubbleya]

What the hell?

Okay, new rule for the thread: Before your inane drivel gets any weight, you tell us if you are indeed a Catholic. Because if you aren't, you are 1) a edited out by TSC and 2) totally ungrounded in your position.

aye, banning was the wrong word i meant editing.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

I didn't read the entire thread since it's not a subject that I really care about so this might have been said but shouldn't that have picked someone that's oh, I don't know, not 80? They're going to have to go through it all again in a couple years.

Thats the first thing I thought when I saw the guy. Here we go again.

[SAW]

Bush may have shown up at the funeral, but its obvious that the US government never gave a crap what the Vatican thought when it made actual decisions.

Case in point: United States' invasion of Iraq.

[Steelrat]

Case in point: United States' invasion of Iraq.

Exactly. Also, I know A LOT of catholics, including every member of my wife's family, and they all support the war, in direct opposition of the Pope's stance. Going against what the Pope says in no way affects their feelings about Bush. They all love em.

[TheTramp]

Once again i never said i was catholic.

WHAT!!!!!!
If you aren't a Catholic then piss off and don't tell others how their religion works.

I absolutly CANNOT believe that statment after what you posted. I am literaly appaled.

On the other hand, if you are then you're the fanatic type that makes the rest of us look bad.

[Jakedubbleya]

Exactly. Also, I know A LOT of catholics, including every member of my wife's family, and they all support the war, in direct opposition of the Pope's stance. Going against what the Pope says in no way affects their feelings about Bush. They all love em.

You CAN go against what the pope says, 99.999....% of evertyhing he says isnt infallible.
............
TheTramp...
Wait...? you cant believe that i never said i was a catholic?

Dont you think its a tad worse for people who dont know how their religion works to go around saying they do, than for me to clarify the stances of a specific church when i do in fact know its stances (they arent exactly a secret)?

As i posted already, the "fanatic" kind is the only kind. And i know u dont wanna look like some over-religious loser (god forbid), so i wont hold it against ya. Maby you should consider joining the fundamentalists... just accept jesus as your savior and your saved, would probably suit your lifestyle more conveniently (no offense to fundamentalism).
-----------------

But quite frankly I am appaled that you sit on your high horse knowing nothing of catholicism. Then presume to say that the faithfull catholics who live by their beliefs give you, a bad name.

[octane2079]

I'm Catholic here, and Jake is pretty much right. If you want to be truly considered part of the Catholic Church you have to be in it for all or nothing if you pick and choose then you turn it into a religion of convenience which is something that the Catholic Faith was never intended to be, it is just that a religion of FAITH if you do not believe in its ideals then pick another religion.

[nippinout]

I'm Catholic here, and Jake is pretty much right. If you want to be truly considered part of the Catholic Church you have to be in it for all or nothing if you pick and choose then you turn it into a religion of convenience which is something that the Catholic Faith was never intended to be, it is just that a religion of FAITH if you do not believe in its ideals then pick another religion.

It's hard to say that it's all or nothing when you have transubstantation going on.

I know what bread, wine, and blood taste like. I don't know what humans taste like, but what I have for Communion is bread and wine. To say otherwise is silly.