It was bound to happen sometime...

[Glickman]

Right or wrong... does it matter?

A school is paid for by the public, but is not "public," in the way you're making it out to be. For instance, could a 30 year old just go sit in any old middle school classroom right now? Why not? It's public, isn't it - just like you say?
At work - I can't wear whatever I want.
Going into a courtroom - I can't wear whatever I want.
In public school - I couldn't wear whatever I wanted, and I had some shirts that they made me turn inside out because I didn't realize there was a problem.
Have I ever thought that my First Amendment rights were violated? Absolutely not.
The First Amendment does not guarantee that you can do whatever the hell you want where ever you want to - that's not the point. That is NOT why we have it to begin with.
Now, on your own time - if the government says you can't say XYZ or wear XYZ, this is a violation of your rights. If you wrote a controversial book, and the government censored it - this would be a violation of your rights.
There's a time and place where these guarantees of personal freedoms are applicable.

triple ditto

big deal you cant wear the shirt you want. as americans (and canadians and other 1st world countries) we are spoiled with rights beyond some 3rd countries dreams, whoopdy do, cant wear a shirt with your favorite alcoholic drink on it...

[Lohman446]

Right or wrong... does it matter?

A school is paid for by the public, but is not "public," in the way you're making it out to be. For instance, could a 30 year old just go sit in any old middle school classroom right now? Why not? It's public, isn't it - just like you say?

I understand the concept of limiting access to the school. It is a public school though, it is governed by an elected body. That elected body can only restrict what it is legally allowed to do so. Dress code may be restricted by that elected body, but I question if a teacher has the right to make it up on the spot

At work - I can't wear whatever I want.

Private property I presume. I have noted above that all arguments are out on public property as far as I am concerned.

Going into a courtroom - I can't wear whatever I want.

Within the confines of the law you can. Might not turn otu well but it is hard to restrict. It is conceivable for a judge to hold you in contempt, but they have that legal authority. A teacher does not

In public school - I couldn't wear whatever I wanted, and I had some shirts that they made m turn inside out because I didn't realize there was a problem.

I was once asked and refused. It cost me time in teh office. When the principal sat me down and I immediaty requested my parents presence he decided it was not worth discussing any further and let it be. My problem with school administrators as a whole is there inaccountability, the feelign many seem to portray that they can do nothing wrong and are above question.

Have I ever thought that my First Amendment rights were violated? Absolutely not

The First Amendment does not guarantee that you can do whatever the hell you want where ever you want to - that's not the point. That is NOT why we have it to begin with.

Now, on your own time - if the government says you can't say XYZ or wear XYZ, this is a violation of your rights. If you wrote a controversial book, and the government censored it - this would be a violation of your rights.

But the government requires school attendance (or an alternative). Books have regularly been censored in the past and I do not have a problem with it. Nor do I have a problem with a school enforcing local decency and other laws as it goes into dress code. I do have a problem with a school official deciding things that I beleive they have no legal right to decide. I have to point a weakness out in my own argument here though - if a school board is elected to govern a school we grant them certain powers, such as setting those standards. But the issue here is not of that school board, or even an adminstrator, enforcing those rules. Its with a teacher making a judgement call on those rules unquestioned. yes.. there is a weakness in the extreme of my argument, but I am not necessarily advocating the extreme. This shirt obviously did not directly violate the dress code (or he should have had action taken in the past by several). It was allowed to be interperted and enforced by a single person. I question if that person even had the authority to question it or enforce the rules I hope you can understand the point I am trying to make, even in the rambling.

PS: this is an intellectual exercise for me. My children, though my respect for them and others, will likely never even come close to violating a dress code, I think parents need to be a little more active an take responsibility... as for me and dress code, I can't think of anywhere that I am close to th line.

[Miscue]

It boils down to: You want to do whatever the hell you want. Whether a teacher has or does not have authority - or whether the First Amendment says you can or cannot - is the issue you are trying to make.

My view is this: Who cares. Wearing something controversial is of no benefit to you. Whatever statement is trying to be made, serves no purpose other than trying to gain attention. Look at why the Founding Fathers decided to have the First Amendment... and how this equates to some stupid shirt in the school setting.

When the school bell rings at the end of the day, put your shirt back on and have at it. "Look at me! I'm making a statement!"

[Jakedubbleya]

Actually Lohman, i do believe that the teachers have actually been given the authority to point out innapropriate schoolwear in the student body by the board. The mere nature of the limitless variances in clothing would require such enforcement.

It seems to be a rather clear violation anyway imo. A less clear vioaltion would perhaps be a U.S. soldier holding the gun instead of an apparent "gangster" figure.

The teachers need to be able to make those kind of feudal decisions for the good (and efficiency) of the school. If there is a big issue then yes, you can take it to the principal or school board and have it sorted out, but having to define the specifics of clothswear for every incident with every student surely was not one of the intended outcomes of creating a teacher enforced dress code.

Whether this is private or public property or what KIND of public property schools are is not the issue, and neither is the nature of the first amendment.

[Lohman446]

Whether this is private or public property or what KIND of public property schools are is not the issue, and neither is the nature of the first amendment.

My view changes 100% if its public or private. A private school has the full authority to serve who it wants, when it wants as long as it does not descriminate on race, sex, national orgin... etc. Other than that its rules can be, morally in my view, on a whim. Granted it wont keep customers long, but thats the advantage to a private school

Well I agree realistically the public schools are allowed to make decisions based on frank fucntionality, meaning if tehy could not they could not function, I question the moral and legal authority of those decisions.

Its not based on me wanted to do whatever I want when I want either Miscue... I have been out of school for some time and the only time I ever pushed any issue in school was to get reaction from the administration - who I beleive were often out of line.

[Jakedubbleya]

I'm still just talking about the little picture here lohman heh. T-shirts and school board/teacher authority.

If you disagree with the system thats a whole different issue, but that is the system, and frankly the rules of it.

I agree about school admins though, so many seem to be utter jerks.

I went to private and public school btw. But by private or public i was only including the public schools and the degree to which THEY are privatized, which was an earlyer argument

[WickeDKlowN]

an apparent "gangster" figure.

I'm sorry, but I actually laughed out loud at that

I have nothing more to say.

[Jakedubbleya]

thus the "quotations" you flamer

[Badinflewinse]

Its none of anyones freakin business why hes wearing it. Hes wearing it damnit, and its his right to do so. Thats what freedom of speech is for, to allow people to express themselves.

Stop complaining that you can't express yourself because your clothing is inappropriate, and let your actions express yourself.

Might sound like a gay idea but so are most shirts/outfits I see being worn by students in my grade.

[Kai]

I think we are all forgetting something...



And that, of course, is that Mushroomhead sucks.

[WickeDKlowN]

I think we are all forgetting something...



And that, of course, is that Mushroomhead sucks.

Have you ever even heard them? Or are you just basing it on the fact that I like ICP therefore everything I listen to must be trash?

[Kai]

I have heard them, actually.

But don't worry, I'm sure that everything you listen to is trash.

[davidb]

I like ICP therefore everything I listen to must be trash?

Hmmm.. Arguable I suppose, though I'm sure there are exceptions.

[wad04]

i don't think we're going to get it through some of these kids heads what rights they have and don't have at school. you guys should really check out some court cases about this, and almost everytime the supreme court sides with the school board like it or not.

[Duzzy]

And oddly enough there is a good reason the courts back the school system. It ensures the authority needed for the school administration to do their job. If everyone thought they could challenge the school's ever decision in court in win it wouldn't be pretty.

You would have less money for education, no stable system in the school for administration, and more people would try to sue because it would be a nice way to make money and screw the kids who want an education. After all, the people sueing already have one, so why should they care about the future when they have themselves to look out for.

Please stop the perpetuation of stupidy in America. A T-shirt is nothing compared to the rest of the world. I agree with Miscue, if you are going to make a statement make sure it is worthwhile. Making a statement for the sake of making a statement is dumb.