It was bound to happen sometime...

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

I think we are all forgetting something...



And that, of course, is that Mushroomhead sucks.

I remembered

[ultralight]

I agree with Miscue, if you are going to make a statement make sure it is worthwhile. Making a statement for the sake of making a statement is dumb.

who gets to decide what is worthwhile in the eyes of the individual? are we all supposed to make statements for PeTA (just an example) because they are only ones who's views and morals matter? everyone has to decide for themselves what is important to them. for this kid it's wearing his chosen apparel where he chooses.

as far as making a statement for the sake of making a statemant... well, you've got to start somewhere. we can't all change the world right out of kindergarten, some of us need practice in our activism.

[wad04]

praticing activism by wearing a t shirt with a gun on it doesn't make sense. the school isn't taking away your 1st amendment rights by making him take it off. end of the flippin discussion.

[Lohman446]

praticing activism by wearing a t shirt with a gun on it doesn't make sense. the school isn't taking away your 1st amendment rights by making him take it off. end of the flippin discussion.

you're right, there interfering wiht my second amendment rights and my first amendment right to protest the gradual deterioration of that right. I'm kidding... kind of

[Python14]

praticing activism by wearing a t shirt with a gun on it doesn't make sense. the school isn't taking away your 1st amendment rights by making him take it off. end of the flippin discussion.

I don't agree. But I rather move to a more important topic, and this is who will replace J mann?

[hitech]

Public schools are public... paid for by taxes. As such they should not have the authority to set standards any higher than any other public place.

That couldn't be further from the truth. First and foremost, public schools are schools. School administrators have the responsibility of maintaining safety and insuring school time is used for it's primary purpose, learning. Anything that is disruptive should be prohibited. Clothing is often a source of disruption. All public schools should have uniforms. It would solve a lot of problems. However, many people are sensitive to student's desires to express themselves, and avoid dress codes. However, it is NOT any students right to wear whatever they damn well please. It is NOT their right to act however they damn well please. If ANY action by a student is not a part of learning what they school is teaching then it is subject to denial. And should be.

Public schools, while they have "public" in the name, are NOT public places. And aren't treated as such. Children in public schools legally do NOT have the same civil rights as adults. It is the law in most (if not all) states. And it is as it should be.

Let me tell you, as a parent the school administrators have a responsibility to MY children. If they shirk that responsibility they will have to answer to me. Let some kid come to school with an F-U shirt and they will find out.

[hitech]

Public schools are private? While I respect that they are locked I question the argument that they constitute private property

There are huge numbers of places owned by the government that are not public places. "Public" schools is just one of them.

[Lohman446]

My ability to properly express my view on here is poor. This is not a failure of the forum or the medium, it is a failure on my part to properly articulate what I mean. Its more tempered than you beleive, and it mostly comes from a standard feeling that...

Let me say this, I am annoyed by the seeming arbitrary way that public school administrations enforce the rules. I am no longer in school, and have not been for some time, and I have children now in school and I agree that there safety is of utmost concern.

Oddly enough I agree that all schools should have dress codes so strict they border on uniforms... it doesn't sit well with what I have said earlier I realize that.

I have a problem when he has worn this shirt to school repeatedly with no problems... then all of the sudden its inappropriate. My problem is this - the rules are not arbitrary. If it is wrong today it was wrong last time, and the time before that. Enforce the rules if they are there... there lack of enforcing them, when it was objectionable, was a failure of the school system. I trust that which is most precious to me to them... I expect perfection from them - is it fair? Not entirely.

[davidb]

I have a problem when he has worn this shirt to school repeatedly with no problems... then all of the sudden its inappropriate. My problem is this - the rules are not arbitrary. If it is wrong today it was wrong last time, and the time before that. Enforce the rules if they are there... there lack of enforcing them, when it was objectionable, was a failure of the school system. I trust that which is most precious to me to them... I expect perfection from them - is it fair? Not entirely.

I see where you're coming from here, but think about this - Did you get pulled over and ticketed the last time you went over the speed limit? I would guess that less than 1% of violations of that particular law are actually punished, and yet precious few would question its validity. Could you even imagine if speed limits were enforced so strictly that you just couldn't get away with it? Can you imagine how hard that would be for the cops?
You also can't expect that every teacher is going to have the same views on what constitutes "offensive" If it had been the same teacher that had made the comment about "feeling the love" or whatever it was who had demanded that he stop wearing it, then I could see calling that unreasonable. If he wants to keep wearing the shirt, he should go either to the teacher who told him not to, or to the teacher's boss (principal, VP, counsellor, whatever) and plead his case.

[wad04]

wow david, great point. props to you.

[Lohman446]

I see where you're coming from here, but think about this - Did you get pulled over and ticketed the last time you went over the speed limit? I would guess that less than 1% of violations of that particular law are actually punished, and yet precious few would question its validity. Could you even imagine if speed limits were enforced so strictly that you just couldn't get away with it? Can you imagine how hard that would be for the cops?

I have a problem with any law that is selectively enforced based on qualitative judgements of those enforcing it. If the speed limits are not going to be enforced until +15 (as they are around here) then lets raise the limit and enforce it at 85. Though I do see your point and the validity of it.

[Automaggot68]

The First Amendment was not created to protect your ability to wear some stupid T-Shirt.

I don't understand the psychology behind worrying about what shirts you can't wear, so long as you can wear shirts. There's a plain shirt... wear the damn thing. Shirt A causes no problems. Shirt B can cause problems, even though it's because people are stupid and for some dumb reason don't like it. Wear shirt A anyway, and swallow your damn misdirected pride. You're not fighting a cause that is both just and worthwhile - truly is a waste of time. Let's say you win... what have you solved? What do you have to gain from displaying some problematic shirt?

An issue of Freedom of Speech? Expressing yourself? Dolts. Trace back to why the First Amendment was inspired to be created, and how this even remotely relates to a retarded T-Shirt. You're really stretching the idea.

I can't wear my stupid shirt! I'm being oppressed!

Should you be able to wear them? In my opinion, yes... they don't bother me. However, it's not important enough to bother fighting with because there seriously isn't anything to gain - unless all of your clothes are "offensive," and there's a financial burden caused by having to replace it all with "non-offensive" clothing.

Speaking of shirts.
When was the last time you bought some NEW ONES?

[davidb]

I have a problem with any law that is selectively enforced based on qualitative judgements of those enforcing it. If the speed limits are not going to be enforced until +15 (as they are around here) then lets raise the limit and enforce it at 85. Though I do see your point and the validity of it.

I've often thought about that myself, to be honest. It seems to me that the whole system would be a lot better if the limit went from "X-ish" to "Y - seriously".

Speed limit was just the first thing that popped into my head, but that aside, laws with selective enforcement exist for a reason. It is simply impossible for every law to anticipate every conceivable violation. Using the topic as an example, could you imagine the list that would have to be compiled to cover all of the things that could be considered offensive?
Back into the grown up world, if every law had to be explicit on every point, what happens when somebody does something that is in blatant and intentional violation of the spirit of the law, but gets away with it because it's not covered in the letter? Sure, you can modify the law to cover the situation, but you can't prosecute ex post facto.
Obviously, selective/subjective enforcement of laws is a flawed system, but it's really the best option we have, IMO.

[hitech]

somebody does something that is in blatant and intentional violation of the spirit of the law, but gets away with it because it's not covered in the letter?

Then they would be guilty of breaking the law. The "spirit" of the law counts in court.

[Lohman446]

what happens when somebody does something that is in blatant and intentional violation of the spirit of the law, but gets away with it because it's not covered in the letter?

Happens more frequently than you would like to see. Sure they are arrested, and possibly prosecuted for it, but if you did not violate the letter of the law you are a good defense attorney away from getting away with it.

The wording of the rule probably exists (as far as dress code)... perhaps it shoudl have to do with anything that promotes violence or is inflamattory. But if we are going to make the rule, lets enforce it, for everyone and by all the people with authority. My main problem is that this, never a problem in the past, assuming no changes in the rule, all of the sudden ebcomes an issue.